To be totally gutted for American women?

[Anothernamechangeplease]

The US Supreme Court has reversed the Roe v Wade ruling. Millions of American women have lost their right to make decisions about what happens to their own bodies.

I have never had an abortion and personally, I'm not sure if I ever could, but I have always been passionately of the view that individual women should be able to make that choice for themselves. It's awful that this right has been removed for so many.

Abortion isn't an option for failed contraceptives. Make better choices!

Are you a sock of the person who said rape victims should just say no?

Nobody is compelled to so much as give blood to save another human life, ie even when the risk to the donor is minimal. I am guessing that the reason for this is that such rulings would impact men as well, and we can't have that.

I don't understand how someone can hold 2 opposing thoughts in their head.

There are people who don't want the Covid vaccine because it's their body, their rights - even though the vaccine could help save other lives

Yet the same people think abortion should be banned, even though a woman should have control over her own body, because they are 'protecting the life of the unborn child'

If the same person was asked some questions - such as "Do you think a person should have control over their own body?" , then the questions on vaccines and then the questions on abortion, I wonder if that would alter any responses?

I'm fully pro- choice but that is such a silly analogy. It gets trotted out from time to time but it really isn't the gotcha some people seem to think it is.

At 5 weeks an embryo has a heart beat. A Fetus feels pain at 20 weeks.

Imagine being so angry over NOT being able to murder babies.

Seriously.

Seemingly the people who are all FOR abortion as the same people who think vaccines should be mandatory.

That's the twist!

Jesus. Read up thread. I've said many many times I'm not talking about the awful exceptions. There will always be awful exceptions.

Imagine wanting to force women to go through pregnancy and birth. Imagine being so gleeful about controlling women.

Yuk.

Have you now done your research and realised that there are now some States in the USA that have made the decision to totally ban abortion?

Imagine thinking so little of women that you believe that a 5 week old embryo is equal to a fully formed female human.

I'm fully pro- choice but that is such a silly analogy

expand please on what is silly? Analogies are there to make a point not to be an exact comparison. It does have the element where we find doing something harder morally
than doing nothing even of the result is the same (it’s not because an embryo is not the same as a person)

You're arguing about failed contraception and "just saying no". Rapists don't care about contraception or women saying no.

I'm surprised nobody has said that the simplest solution to all these problems is obviously for ALL men to have enforced vasectomies after freezing their sperm to ensure they have an opportunity to become parents at a later date when the man and his female partner fully consent and know the possible outcome.

FFS.

It’s absolutely bizarre that you’re this wound up about vaccines being pushed into people’s bodies, while arguing that people should have less choice around what happens to their bodies.

Funny how it's a child/baby as soon as a woman announces her pregnancy and posts her 12 week scan photo and throughout the entire pregnancy when wanted- but god forbid it's a baby if we're killing it

This is so basic. Such a sad attempt at a "gotcha". I'll explain in case you're very young or a bit...dense.

We know it isn't actually a baby. We call it a baby because when it is wanted it is our baby, the hope the future the person that baby will become is what matters.

I've had 2 miscarriages past 12 weeks. They weren't babies. There was no life on the bathroom floor either time. Looking back, realistically now it was just a bloody mess of cells and membranes. It was a potential baby to me and that's why I would say "I lost the baby". You'd have to be a monster to retort with "nah, you lost a bunch of cells". It's true though. There was no baby other than the potential one in heart.

You want to try and justify forcing women and girls to give birth and that was your weak ass attempt? Go back to Gilead Aunt Lydia and all shame on you.

You believe that an embryo at the 5 week stage is more valuable than a living breathing adult woman? That's honestly laughable.

I hope you are heavily involved in charities that work with children. I imagine every spare penny you have goes to these charities because after all, you just lurve the little sweet kiddies don't you. I cant imagine that you don't give a fuck once they're born. That would be terrible hypocritical and out you as a common or garden variety misogynistic cunt.

The outcome for the baby is none of their concern, none of this is for the benefit of the child. They just to have control/punish women if they don’t comply with their laws. It’s revolting.

You need to explain why you think this is 'silly'. No direct analogy is claimed here; merely the principle that in EVERY other context the right of an individual to have autonomy over their body is upheld, regardless of the implications for others.

Because it completely ignores the utterly unique situation of a woman and a child in utero. It ignores the fact that in this specific situation autonomy over the woman's body directly affects another living organism/ body/ potential body/ potential human. It completely fails to answer or address that point.

It's nowhere near being any sort of analogy. Use it if you want, I personally think it's silly and badly thought out.

The outcome for the baby is none of their concern, none of this is for the benefit of the child

So it would appear, from the almost total lack of replies to questions like "What about the future welfare of an unwanted child?"

As so often it's all very well striking positions, but to me they don't seem worth much if folk want to ignore the possible consequences

I've read enough of your crap. You can't disown the huge problems in your statements by claiming "exceptions" that automatically just make them right.

You mention failed contraception right before lecturing about "better choices". It really is as dumb as the person who told rape survivors to say no!

Those against abortion, what are YOU prepared to do once a woman has a child she did not want? Are you prepared to pay for it until adulthood? Give it a home? Pay for the mother to access MH services to address issues that may arise from her forced (by you) to give birth? Will you be happy that there are no school places due to all those unwanted children now needing an education? Will you not complain about how children's services are overwhelmed by those who have been traumatised through/born with FAS or addicted to drugs? If you're not prepared to do any of that then why not? Is it only the unborn child that you care about and to hell with them once they are here?

Because it completely ignores the utterly unique situation of a woman and a child in utero. It ignores the fact that in this specific situation autonomy over the woman's body directly affects another living organism/ body/ potential body/ potential human. It completely fails to answer or address that point

I agree there are differences obviously.

it is an artificial construct designed to tease out why we feel how we do - like many thought experiments are. The whole point is WHY do people feel differently because the cells are in utero if the result to use your body to support the cells/person in the thought experiment would have the same result. Something continues to ‘live’ or not.

The idea of being compelled to do either gives me a really similar sense of panic. But yes, it was the first thing that came to mind when I was turning this thread over in my mind, so in that sense, not well thought out at all!

At 0 weeks pregnant the woman has a brain and the ability to make the best choice for herself and the potential baby.

Imagine thinking that you have the right to dictate to another person who you have never met, will never meet and have no understanding about their circumstances what they can do with their own body.

Pro-lifers do not give a flying fuck about life and unborn babies. They don't give a fuck that removing access to safe abortions kills women. It's all about control and punishing women for having the audacity to have sex without wanting a child.

Save your breath, AclowncalledAlice - I'll be amazed if you get any proper answers to that, beyond perhaps "parents should be obliged to provide" with no detail as to what should be done if they won't

Here's a thought though: where their diktats have brought something about, perhaps we could ask organised religions to pay the costs? After all they have the money - or rather would have, if they weren't having to spend so much defending the pitifully few child abuse cases they're held accountable for

Quite. It's very telling how they are all wanting to force women into giving birth but are strangely quiet about what happens to the baby once it's born. It's almost as if they haven't worked out that unwanted babies will have a shitty life but who cares about that as long as they get to control what a woman is able to do with her own body. That's all that matters as far as they are concerned.