To be totally gutted for American women?

[Anothernamechangeplease]

The US Supreme Court has reversed the Roe v Wade ruling. Millions of American women have lost their right to make decisions about what happens to their own bodies.

I have never had an abortion and personally, I'm not sure if I ever could, but I have always been passionately of the view that individual women should be able to make that choice for themselves. It's awful that this right has been removed for so many.

I'm Irish and the States was something to be looked up to when we were young. A lot of irish emigrated in the 80s and we always assumed for a better life. It beggars belief that those poor women are being treated the way that they are now. They are as badly off as the women in Ireland were 50/60/70 years ago.

The 'just use contraception' argument has so many fallacies.

In many areas of the UK, it can be really hard to get a GP or practice nurse appt for contraception. Sexual health clinics are closing/few and far between. For coil and implant fittings, there's a lack of specially trained staff to put them in and you have an appointment wait if you can get one.
The pill is not suitable for all women (due to risk factors/other health conditions) and will not work if you're sick, on certain medications, or you miss doses.
Coils and implants can go wrong (and not all women can have them due to risk factors, health conditions, uterine physiology). There is the depo injection but you need to try to get an appointment for this and, again, it's not suitable for all women.

The MAP in the UK is quite costly---can be hard to get an NHS script. So if your choice is food for the week or the £13-25 for the MAP, what are you going to choose?

Just wear condoms, you say, but this is subject to your partner also---so many men refuse to wear them. So don't have sex then, eh?? Is it always consensual? What about the sexual coercion or pressure put on a woman to have sex. Having sex with one's DP is not always a real choice for a woman and for those saying 'just don't have sex' are a bit out of touch with reality

Added to which, NO contraception is 100%. Abortion is a fallback measure.

We are lucky in the UK that most contraception is free (for now). In the US, it is not so that is another barrier to access.

It is a backwards move but lots of women seem very happy with it :( ( on the news today )
This is what I can't get my head around.
Im glad some are against it but their voices will be muted I suppose. It's just More division.

Of course women free of violent repercussions doing some sort of sex strike will lead to the rise of othered women with fewer choices selling sex, like in Victorian times.

This turning back the clock thing stinks from any political angle - the democrats have been spineless on the abortion issue for the duration too as they see the pro choice campaign as still too radical and vote losing.

I can't see the uk parallels on abortion itself. Scotland withholding ivf treatment for women without covid vaccinations was an attempt to control women's bodies in the interest of the foetus but much as I disliked it, not in the same league.

@Teaandtoastedbiscuits ... not just women of long ago.. the stpries told on www.facebook.com/InHerIrishShoes/ are a testament to what life without free access to abortion is like just 4 years ago and the reality in Ireland is that access to abortion remains restricted in practice.

I just wish more women would take better, personal control over their contraception to prevent the need for so many abortions

how do you know they aren’t?

how do you know that women seeking abortions haven’t been taking personal control over their contraception, used it diligently, but still got pregnant, or been raped, or had a man sneak the condom off in the middle of intercourse?

how do you know it’s not some teenager who’s read on a forum or been told by peers that using two condoms is twice as safe, and got pregnant as a result?

i think women who don’t want to get pregnant do take control over their contraception.

prove me wrong…

One woman and 5 men voted to overturn the ruling, 1 man and 2 women voted against.

WHY DO WE STILL NOT HAVE EQUAL REPRESENTATION AND SHARE OF VOICE IN ALL AREAS WHERE DECISIONS ARE MADE?

It’s arguably men who need to be told not to make babies. How many threads have you seen on here saying ‘my partner’s ex tricked him into having a baby he didn’t want’ or ‘if a man didn’t want the baby he shouldn’t have to provide maintenance’? Those posters are always furious at the idea men who don’t want babies shouldn’t make them.

Sorry, I can't add much except to show solidarity.

I have such a love/hate relationship with America, and this just confirms my suspicion that the US does not value women. Their attitude to maternity leave is also disgraceful.

I find it ironic that a place that claims to care so much about the rights of a foetus, doesn't actually give two f*cks about it once born.

Most women across the world either do not have access to contraception or are not allowed to take them or their partners won't wear condoms or they are effectively raped by them daily. But sure continue talking about your friend Kelly who sleeps around while forgetting to take a pill because that is your narrow little universe and you can't conceive of anything else. Me, I think that even if a woman has slept with all of Britain and taken no precautions at all, she still deserves to get an abortion.

So much suffering is going to follow. America is leading the charge back into the dark ages. A monumental setback for women and children.

Not sure about this.

Women's rights have been eroded all over, look at Afghanistan and Iran and how much women have lost there.

Look at Poland where the laws have recently changed.

Regarding contraception- I have fallen pregnant whilst I was on the depot injection. I only realised when I had a miscarriage so obviously abit of a shock. I also fell pregnant after taking two morning after pills . The hardest decision I’ve ever had to make was terminating and I still deeply regret it. Point is contraception dosnt always work . You may be with some shitty partner who dosnt want to wear a condom. Then when you tell him your pregnant he wants nothing to do with it. Then you spend your life feeling like shit because of crap pro lifers tell you and you feel worse than some kind of murdering serial killer .

I'm just watching the BBC and understand (and support) the protests. However, what I can't understand is the celebrating from the anti abortion side (and especially seeing women there).

Why would another woman want to impose her views on another woman? Sure you might personally be against abortion but why support removing that choice from another woman? Puzzling.

I think these "pro lifers" feel they are advocating for the unborn- baby as they see it.
A foetus has no voice, and if it's mother will not support that right to life by seeking a termination then others must step in and be that voice.
Usually rooted in christain doctrine- the pro lifers feel they are speaking for the rights of the unborn- and that includes all foetuses, not just their own.

It isn't puzzling if you're familiar with the catechism of the Catholic Church - anti contraception, anti abortion, anti ivf, all cornerstones since the 1960s theology of the body.

Of course they'll be celebrating they see it as enshrining God's law and stopping murder.

Thanks. These are likely the same people who voted against Obama Care and don't actually care about the life of the baby but just some idealistic BS. No disrespect to religion but just the interpretation by these idiots.

The same group of judges, the Supreme Court has recent;ly said that decades old rules in New York regarding the carrying of weapons is 'unconstitutional' so they're made it much easier to carry weapons. It's a pity that they don't care as much about children walking around as they purport to do about the unborn.

What shocked me watching the news was how many young people were celebrating. Young women who appeared to be from all different backgrounds. Educated women. This isn’t the usual crowd of people we see anti abortion protests

my family live in the states my young nieces having such restrictions over them today in 2022 is heartbreaking.

once again women being controlled it never ends we are always having our boundaries pushed our freedoms are not guaranteed

What shocked me watching the news was how many young people were celebrating. Young women who appeared to be from all different backgrounds. Educated women. This isn’t the usual crowd of people we see anti abortion protests

my family live in the states my young nieces having such restrictions over them today in 2022 is heartbreaking.

once again women being controlled it never ends we are always having our boundaries pushed our freedoms are not guaranteed

Re the "to a point", I think that allowing to wait until 24 weeks for non medical reasons - I say this as the parent of a 24 weeker that is thriving.

@lamaze1

Don’t conflate preemie birth with abortion limits. The number of babies who survive at 24 weeks is low, and the number who “thrive” is lower still. When these are conflated it leads people to believe that at 24 weeks, all babies can be born healthy and survive beyond a few weeks. That’s a dangerous message to sent to parents facing premature birth.

I know people have called me ignorant, and maybe being pulled out of school after year 6 will do that to you. But I don't get beat down and I do my best to learn about things and form my own viewpoints
I actually think this means my opinion is more true to my own thoughts than many on here. I haven't been swayed by all these different factors that posters will have grown up around

Absolutely agree with you about the name calling, Bride, and as said I very much admire you for trying to learn, which can't be easy after such a start.
I also totally get what you're saying about "not being swayed by factors others have grown up around", but doesn't that carry the risk that you may have missed some of the nuance around issues like this?

I'll say again though that I have no issue at all with peoples' right to an individual view about this - only if they expect to impose that view on others, and doubly so if it comes from religious diktat, which for me has no place whatsoever in the sphere of legislation

@BoredZelda my post was in response to a post further up by a poster querying why some people say "I haven't had an abortion" or "I wouldn't have one" but am pro choice. I was suggesting one possible reason for those posts.

Regardless i'm entitled to my opinion, which as I sais is pro-choice. I respectfully disagree I'm conflating issues or suggesting that I've said all 24 weekers thrive as my post didn't say that.

I simply said my 24 weeker that I could have elected to terminate hours before her birth is thriving. This is a fact. Touch wood her only issues are a little ecszma, and a small hole in her heart which is a congentital issue unrelated to prematurity which the drs are not overly concerned about. It is for this reason that I mentioned my "thriving" 24 weeker in my original post - to explain my reasoning.

Ar no point did I say that they always survive and/or thrive. I'm fully aware of the challenges faced by babies born at 24 weeks, like my daughter and other friends I have met on our journey . I also know from experience as a parent that has faced premature birth, that it is nice to hear of good outcomes. Other similar parents and I frankly found comfort in hearing success stories and would pore ove the noticeboards on the ward containing pictures and letters from parents with babies previously on the ward who had been successful.

Notwithstanding the above, survival aside, the psychological impact of late termination is hard. I previously lost a pregnancy at 20 weeks and had to go through the labour only to give birth to essentially a dead "baby". It isn't an easy option physically or mentally and certainly made me think twice about very late termination for non medical reasons and I'm entitled to my opinion on this.

Clearly we shall have to agree to disagree.

It isn't puzzling if you're familiar with the catechism of the Catholic Church - anti contraception, anti abortion, anti ivf, all cornerstones since the 1960s theology of the body

Spot on, Greywinds, and it's why I raised the issue of 6 out of the 9 Supreme Court justices being catholic and wondered just what influence this might have had on the decision

Again, their personal faiths are a matter for them and nobody else's businesss - unless it's affecting public policy, when it can become a very different matter

I'll be very clear that the catholic church is by no means alone in the horrors around child abuse, but I bitterly resent being prated at about the "protection of innocents" if it's coming from people who for generations have enabled evil

Whoa, this woman (a legislator) speaks of her trust in women being able to control ejaculate in their vaginas. Utah of the Mormons maybe? Awful stuff really for a public rep to say I think anyway.

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