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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be totally gutted for American women?

995 replies

Anothernamechangeplease · 24/06/2022 15:19

The US Supreme Court has reversed the Roe v Wade ruling. Millions of American women have lost their right to make decisions about what happens to their own bodies. Sad

I have never had an abortion and personally, I'm not sure if I ever could, but I have always been passionately of the view that individual women should be able to make that choice for themselves. It's awful that this right has been removed for so many.

OP posts:
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6
StrychnineInTheSandwiches · 25/06/2022 11:48

I saw that. She said 'women must limit their intake of semen' like a doctor might tell you to limit your intake of saturated fat. What the fucking fuck. Female Republican politicians are the very fucking worst of all.

BoredZelda · 25/06/2022 11:57

I respectfully disagree I'm conflating issues or suggesting that I've said all 24 weekers thrive as my post didn't say that.
I simply said my 24 weeker that I could have elected to terminate hours before her birth is thriving. This is a fact. Touch wood her only issues are a little ecszma, and a small hole in her heart which is a congentital issue unrelated to prematurity which the drs are not overly concerned about. It is for this reason that I mentioned my "thriving" 24 weeker in my original post - to explain my reasoning. Ar no point did I say that they always survive and/or thrive. I'm fully aware of the challenges faced by babies born at 24 weeks, like my daughter and other friends I have met on our journey . I also know from experience as a parent that has faced premature birth, that it is nice to hear of good outcomes. Other similar parents and I frankly found comfort in hearing success stories and would pore ove the noticeboards on the ward containing pictures and letters from parents with babies previously on the ward who had been successful.

Regardless of intention, you are conflating the two. There are unintended consequences of doing so. Having had my own premmie journey and gone on to work with Bliss supporting hundreds of women going through the same, I can assure you that kind of messaging is not harmless. What you are describing is searching for hope and that is a normal reaction when facing a scary situation. But the most important thing we were told when supporting parents was to be honest. They've done a lot of work with parents and the most common thing they were told by parents was the lack of real information made things harder. Why was my 24 weeker not thriving, why did mine go on to have a long term chronic disability. The expectation that things would be fine, made that much harder to deal with. Of babies born before 26 weeks, only 20% go on to have no problems. 46% have moderate to severe disability, and 34% have a mild disability. A third have multiple conditions. Only 20% "thrive" but more recent research has also found that within that group, 78% had at least one condition that manifested in adolescence or early adulthood, such as anxiety, depression, ASD (compared with 37% in the general population). The other effect is on parents of babies born earlier than 24 weeks. If babies survive and thrive at 24 weeks, then doctors should intervene with my 22 or 23 weeker, but we know it isn't that cut and dry.

Notwithstanding the above, survival aside, the psychological impact of late termination is hard. I previously lost a pregnancy at 20 weeks and had to go through the labour only to give birth to essentially a dead "baby". It isn't an easy option physically or mentally and certainly made me think twice about very late termination for non medical reasons and I'm entitled to my opinion on this.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, but surely that should indicate to you that nobody takes a 24 week non medical abortion lightly and in fact, the number of those is so low it is pretty much statistically negligible. The number of abortions after 20 weeks is 1% of all abortions. Those at or after 24 weeks is 0.1%. This would indicate that it is only done in extremis and therefore the option should be available for those situations where it is required. The alternative is to force a woman to carry an unwanted baby to term and deliver. I'd suggest that could have an equally severe physical and mental impact. Let's say a woman has a child, is pregnant with another and discovers at 22 weeks she has cancer. If she puts off treatment she will die within the year. These are the kind of scenarios the law allows for and should remain in place for that reason.

Squiff70 · 25/06/2022 11:57

Just dropping this off for anyone who might like it...

To be totally gutted for American women?
Oestrogelsmuggler · 25/06/2022 12:14

StrychnineInTheSandwiches · 25/06/2022 11:48

I saw that. She said 'women must limit their intake of semen' like a doctor might tell you to limit your intake of saturated fat. What the fucking fuck. Female Republican politicians are the very fucking worst of all.

I would agree with her, but suggest this happens by refusing to have sex with males until women's rights are enshrined in the constitution.

Unfortunately this would almost certainly lead to lots of rape.

lamaze1 · 25/06/2022 12:17

@BoredZelda I acknowledge that you've also gone through the preemie journey but I do think it's a shame you're not prepared to allow me my opinion based on my experience.

Had I said or suggested that all 24 weekers thrive I'd be minded to agree with you, but as I've already said I didn't say that. A point you've missed twice now.

Re late termination. Again I was simply pointing out the reality for me and my reasoning for what I said. I never said people took the decision lightly. Not entirely sure where you've pulled that from.

Again as previously pointed out at no point have I said my experience or opinion is applicable to everyone. I was simply explaining my reasoning. I'm afraid I'm not going to be railroaded into agreeing with you so as I said we shall have to agree to disagree and would suggest focusing on yesterdays decision.

Fuzzyhippo · 25/06/2022 12:25

As a mentally ill person who has had a late term termination, I'd be screwed if I wasn't able to get one and social services would of had a field day. I find it disturbing how dogs have more reproductive rights than humans do..

greywinds · 25/06/2022 12:26

@Puzzledandpissedoff totally agree - and a lot of those Catholic supremes were evasive in confirmation hearings and then have acted very swiftly in practice.

There are a lot of practicing catholics in America and many evangelicals that would vote similarly - hard to see how the democrats can fix this without Supreme Court or electoral college reform at this stage.

JLwac · 25/06/2022 12:38

Faffertea · 24/06/2022 22:51

I’m a Mum, a professional in my 30s and also a woman who had an abortion for a much wanted pregnancy because I was ill. Not about to die ill but with hyperemesis severe enough despite all the available treatment and under a leading HG expert that without IV fluids regularly I’d have ended up with kidney failure. Around 10% of women with HG terminate their pregnancies because the disease is so awful even if it’s generally no longer fatal.

Women needing abortions are not just contraceptive failures; too stupid or too feckless to care; victims of rape or any other the other bad things. We are women like any other, living our lives the same as you. Planning pregnancies that don’t go the way we want them to. Bearing the scars of the impossible choice but knowing it was the right one nonetheless. Hiding the truth even from our closest friends or family because we fear they won’t understand and will judge. Think about that before you judge what’s a worthy reason for an abortion. Which woman has a good enough reason to make it ok in your eyes. If you haven’t lived it, you have no idea and you’re no better than those who have banned it you’ve just made your own rules about what counts as justifiable.

@Faffertea I went through this too. You have my sympathy. It was the worst time of my life. I wish people would understand this. Flowers

riesenrad · 25/06/2022 12:44

I have never had an abortion but have had the odd pregnancy scare as a young woman. I find it massively irritating that people think it's ok to tell other people what they can and cannot do with their bodies. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. But don't tell other women they can't.

As for the men, if you don't want women having abortions, stop, and stop other men, from impregnating them! Condoms exist, and are extremely reliable when used properly!

Ilikeviognier · 25/06/2022 12:57

Terrifying. I had to terminate my little boys” twin at 12 weeks as he or she was too ill too survive the world and was also posing a risk to the healthy baby. I dread to think what would have happened had I not had the choice to do this. 😰

Cartoonmom · 25/06/2022 14:29

Idk if this has been posted yet, but here is a link that shows the states where abortion is now illegal.

www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/06/24/1107126432/abortion-bans-supreme-court-roe-v-wade

Please try to avoid traveling to these states. If you're outside the US, please consider avoiding travel to all of America. The US Congress had decades to codify Roe. They failed us and have shown they don't care or respect women.

This weekend I'm going to write to my state representatives and demand that they no longer pay for public employees to travel to anti Roe states for work. I'm not sure how much that really happens (I'm in Delaware), but I think it's worth exploring.

If anyone has other ideas for resistance, please share them.

dottypotter · 25/06/2022 14:31

yes disgusted with the decision.

Hornbostel · 25/06/2022 16:15

He's since deleted the tweet but it looks like his real account to me.

Trainbear · 25/06/2022 16:31

Oestrogelsmuggler · 25/06/2022 12:14

I would agree with her, but suggest this happens by refusing to have sex with males until women's rights are enshrined in the constitution.

Unfortunately this would almost certainly lead to lots of rape.

Or say "no". Or use other forms of birth control, is termination a reasonable form of birth control?

ReneBumsWombats · 25/06/2022 16:34

Trainbear · 25/06/2022 16:31

Or say "no". Or use other forms of birth control, is termination a reasonable form of birth control?

Prevent rape by saying no?

What are you smoking? And why aren't you sharing?

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 25/06/2022 16:37

Cartoonmom · 25/06/2022 14:29

Idk if this has been posted yet, but here is a link that shows the states where abortion is now illegal.

www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/06/24/1107126432/abortion-bans-supreme-court-roe-v-wade

Please try to avoid traveling to these states. If you're outside the US, please consider avoiding travel to all of America. The US Congress had decades to codify Roe. They failed us and have shown they don't care or respect women.

This weekend I'm going to write to my state representatives and demand that they no longer pay for public employees to travel to anti Roe states for work. I'm not sure how much that really happens (I'm in Delaware), but I think it's worth exploring.

If anyone has other ideas for resistance, please share them.

Slightly unfair on Arizona to include it in the marked up map.

Arizona recently enacted a 15-week ban and may not enforce its pre-Roe ban.

There are several EU countries (France, Germany and R of I for example) with shorter time limits.

SweatyChamoisPad · 25/06/2022 16:46

Judging by the amount of women who post on here really upset because their husband is throwing a tantrum/giving her the silent treatment because she didn’t want sex last night because she’s tired/has been up all night with a child/just isn’t in the mood, just saying “no” isn’t always an option. And of those women who just put out to keep the peace, a proportion will become pregnant - they might be on the pill or the condom splits or she’s not had time to get her depro jab, or her iud needs replacing - this is why we need abortion. Sometimes saying “no” isn’t that easy.

AmaryIlis · 25/06/2022 16:46

Expect to see many more tragedies like these happening in certain states in the US.

People who support the Supreme Court on this: would you want to travel to one of those states if you were pregnant?

Oestrogelsmuggler · 25/06/2022 17:07

Explore your bisexuality, all y'all.

Hornbostel · 25/06/2022 17:25

Trainbear · 25/06/2022 16:31

Or say "no". Or use other forms of birth control, is termination a reasonable form of birth control?

Do you know what the word rape means?

MrsPrimulaSpread · 25/06/2022 17:36

It's actually very frightening
The welfare of women should always come first

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 25/06/2022 17:53

Or say "no". Or use other forms of birth control, is termination a reasonable form of birth control?

theres something wrong with you

you might want to get that checked…

cakeorwine · 25/06/2022 17:56

It's an awful decision. One that was played out as Trump filled the Supreme Court with his justices.

I wonder how much hypocrisy goes on? In families where the parents are vocally against abortion, but when a family member becomes pregnant and doesn't want to continue pregnancy - how many either change their views or quietly encourage them to go to another State to get an abortion? Does having direct personal involvement affect their views?

tigger1001 · 25/06/2022 17:56

"Or say "no". Or use other forms of birth control, is termination a reasonable form of birth control?"

Are you saying to use other forms of birth control in case you get raped???

Because you can't be suggesting "say no" will stop a rapist....

ddl1 · 25/06/2022 18:16

Emotionalsupportviper · 24/06/2022 21:24

They aren't really pro-life. They're pro-foetus.

Once that baby is born they don't give adamn.

Yes. The infant mortality rates in America are APPALLING for a developed country; and they are generally much worse in the conservative 'pro-life' states than in the more liberal coastal states.

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