To be totally gutted for American women?

[Anothernamechangeplease]

The US Supreme Court has reversed the Roe v Wade ruling. Millions of American women have lost their right to make decisions about what happens to their own bodies.

I have never had an abortion and personally, I'm not sure if I ever could, but I have always been passionately of the view that individual women should be able to make that choice for themselves. It's awful that this right has been removed for so many.

They do. The crazy part is the 'they', includes women.

I don't think it's crazy, patriarchy is about a system, and both men and women uphold the views.
My family has several fundamentalist christians, women-they are pro life, anti feminism, and outspoken. I see them as hapless handmaidens, but it suits them.
We can't assume men are to blame, in fact the judge in this latest case is a woman, again deeply religious- Amy Coney Barrat.
I feel a great deal of sadness, for women iin the US, but women all over the world.

I can't speak for Daisy, obviously but yes, I did imagine this. The minute Trump imposed his choices on SCOTUS this became a danger, unfortunately. I do not understand why you would think that it could happen here, we have not been influenced by ludicrous US gun laws (the opposite, if anything) have we, so why would we be influenced by this?

US has some pretty extreme religious zealots and right wing ideologies…I cannot imagine UK society permitting that madness.

I am not so complacent, or trusting in the intelligence and beneficence of British citizens. As a pp said, we are living in weird times where the great British people already permit or support people working full time and being poor: have already supported the housing crisis and lauded the reintroduction of private land lording; the growth of the need for degrees and then the introduction of massive debts for them; the screwing over of everyone under 50 thereby; and more relevantly the slow degradation of the public sector and the NHS in particular; to the point that maternal deaths have gone up, with lack of staff being cited as a reason for that in Nottingham. And Telford, Rotherham and the same thing in Hull and other places; and the general male aggression on the streets.

There are too many U.K. people of too disparate values and backgrounds to even know what hells are happening or on the way.

I agree with last couple of posts, we don’t always follow gun laws a good example and some women are celebrating as hard as it is to hear

Some states have raised millions in 24 hours to fund travel and it seems it will be an election issue to get it in law by the democrats

Half of those multiple millions are men and half of those are very willing to blame women for all the economic problems we face. The rape stats, increasing male violence, increasing excuses and decreasing convictions should show us all that the U.K. is in a dangerous place for women.

It shouldn’t be “enforced” - a woman should be believed if she says she’s in an abusive relationship and wants an abortion. If she actually not, well, that’s between her and her conscience.

ok, so you’re not actually asking for restrictions on abortions, just saying that you think they’re a necessary evil?

trying to put caveats on abortion outside of the medical, will not work. Making ‘exceptions’ for rape, abusive relationships etc is completely unenforceable - there would have to be a process or even trial to confirm what happened, and by that point the pregnancy would be advanced. Defeating the object, surely? Not to mention the resources that would be required to investigate these situations.

as for the medical caveats, I was stunned, appalled and laughed in shock when I heard that utter twat on LBC saying ectopic pregnancies should be ‘moved into the womb’. Have these people ever visited planet earth? I’m amazed they have made it to adulthood with such a loose grip on fact and reality.

I got lost in the thread as it was moving too quickly but I wanted to respond to you because you were actually kind and didn't attack me, thank you.

If I don't get involved then I will never learn and progress. I honestly don't mind people being opposed to me and it makes me consider important questions but there's no need for the personal attacks from some.

I know people have called me ignorant, and maybe being pulled out of school after year 6 will do that to you. But I don't get beat down and I do my best to learn about things and form my own viewpoints.

I actually think this means my opinion is more true to my own thoughts than many on here. I haven't been swayed by all these different factors that posters will have grown up around.

On this topic I have read and researched as best I could and made the decision that I don't agree with abortion.

In fact though, if you genuinely want as many babies to live and live well, you wouldn't start with an abortion ban, you'd start with many other things for rights form children and families.

Where is the republican manifesto to improve the lives of single mums?

As many people have said, abortion bans just mean more women die and more babies are born into bad situations.

Don’t have one then.

That'd be me boarding over my vagina then, were I an American woman. There'd be no chance I'd risk an unwanted pregnancy with no way out.

This is the fightback, I hope, from the Attorney General.

twitter.com/nytimes/status/1540392589433704448/photo/1

On this topic I have read and researched as best I could and made the decision that I don't agree with abortion

I don't agree with smoking but I don't stop other people from choosing to smoke.

I don't agree with extreme body modifications such as huge holes in ears, facial tatoos, forking tongues, etc but I don't stop other people from choosing to do that.

I don't agree with the trend for facial fillers and botox but I don't stop other people from choosing to have it.

But even though I don't necessarily agree with their choices, I don't go around being vocal about it because 1, that's just plain rude and 2, it's not my decision.

Even thiugh I don't agree with their choice, what I do want for these people choosing to do these things with their bodies is for them to be able to do it as safely as possible. You could argue there is no safe way to smoke but if someone is going to then I want them to be able to buy quality controlled cigarettes with approved ingredients rather than dodgy back-of-van ones containing god knows what. I want them to have access to support services. I want them to be able to access appropriate healthcare. Ditto for the body modifications and the fillers/botox. I want them to have access to clean, safety checked studios, sterilised equipment, properly trained practitioners, safety checked products containing approved components, and appropriate after care. I want it all kept legal.

I don't want them turning to illegal means to obtain what they need because I'm a decent person who doesn't enjoy the thought of other people getting fucked over just to appease my misguided morality. I also don't want the knock on effects of that on the society I live in - the people who are injured, sick, maimed, or dying because of having to turn to illegal means, the children left without a parent or with a parent unable to care for them due to damaged health, the strain on the legal system of having to prosecute those caught carrying out this illegal activity, the strain in the health service, the strain on the social care service.

Abortion is the same.

If you don't agree with it, that's up to you, don't get one. That's how choice works. You get pregnant, you have a choice - keep or TOP. Choose what is best for you and your situation but don't take that same choice away from other women just because you don't like the one they're making.

@Pumperthepumper Jusy leave me alone. You're nothing but a bully.

For saying you shouldn’t get an abortion if you don’t want one?

Its not just for me. I don't think they should be allowed for anyone because I believe that the unborn child is a human life. There is no way to draw a line where one day it is and the next day it isn't.

If America is so pro life,start with abolishing guns

Yes there is, we already have a system in place for where we draw that line.

Absolutely

@Brideandprejudice well there is; and that’s where the fetus would have a realistic chance of survival outside of the mother.

I’m confused about your stance on this. So you would allow abortions in select circumstances? What would those circumstances be?

I cannot bring myself to believe that this is true. Where is everybody???

Honestly, all women should slam their vaginas shut right now and refuse sex indefinitely. It’s the only way we are all completely safe from unwanted pregnancy. Punish all men.

That'd be me boarding over my vagina then, were I an American woman. There'd be no chance I'd risk an unwanted pregnancy with no way out.

Telling women to "just say no" is not going to override the need for access to safe, legal abortion. "Just say no" implies that if a woman was to get experience an unwanted pregnancy then it's her own fault, she should have said no and kept her legs shut. That's the exact same attitude being touted by the pro-lifers - don't want a baby, don't have sex, and it's your own fault if you do.

Not all women are in relationships where they can just go on a sex strike. Not all women have control over their own fertility, control over how and when and where they have sex or with whom. For many women there is no option to say no.

Additionally there is a huge overlap between the people who support these anti-abortion laws and the people who think it is a woman's duty to submit to the sexual needs of men. Technically, marital rape is illegal in the US however different states have differing exceptions and loopholes. It is more difficult for a spouse-victim to prove that she didn't consent to her husband than it would be to prove non-consent with a stranger. Many states don't prosecute marital rape or they treat it as a lesser crime and offer couples counselling in lieu of criminal charges. Many states only consider it rape if force or violence is used, coercion and blackmail are not considered force, and a few state that a spouse who is drugged or unconscious cannot claim rape.

Then there are the MRAs and the Incels. Think they'll take a sex strike well? They already hate women for gatekeeping sex.

Bad shit happens to women who are perceived as willfully withholding sex. They can be attacked, raped, assaulted, and murdered for it.

We're not a carrot on a stick to dangle over the men. "Be a good boy and you'll get a fuck" demeans women and cheapens our sexuality down to the level of it being entirely transactional. It furthers the myth that women are the keepers of sex and control men's access to it, that men need to take that control back, and that then feeds back into all of the bullshit described above.

The kind of men who pass these laws will not be deterred by any sort of sex strike and neither will their supporters.

Honestly, all women should slam their vaginas shut right now and refuse sex indefinitely. It’s the only way we are all completely safe from unwanted pregnancy. Punish all men.

Why do you see withdrawal of sex as punishment for men? Women enjoy sex and they should not have to deny sex to themselves.

Some of the judges in that panel were women, some of the most vocal anti abortion activists are women.

It's not that simple.

Its not just for me. I don't think they should be allowed for anyone because I believe that the unborn child is a human life. There is no way to draw a line where one day it is and the next day it isn't.

A pregnancy not a child in the same way that a bag of flour and a box of eggs is not a cake. It has the potential to be a child but first it needs to grow and develop. During that period of growth and development it is entirely reliant on the body of the woman hosting it and because it is her body she gets to say whether or not she wants to host it. If she decides she does not want to have her body host a pregnancy then she had the right to interrupt that process both via contraception to stop it before it even begins or via abortion to halt the process once it starts. At no point is she killing a child.

You can’t argue with anti-abortionist hardliners online.

Well you can, but it’s a waste of energy that may be, for example, better spent writing to our MPs about the common sense of preserving the UK system that we thankfully have.