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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be totally gutted for American women?

995 replies

Anothernamechangeplease · 24/06/2022 15:19

The US Supreme Court has reversed the Roe v Wade ruling. Millions of American women have lost their right to make decisions about what happens to their own bodies. Sad

I have never had an abortion and personally, I'm not sure if I ever could, but I have always been passionately of the view that individual women should be able to make that choice for themselves. It's awful that this right has been removed for so many.

OP posts:
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6
Lesserspottedmama · 24/06/2022 17:53

My thoughts on abortion have become a lot more nuanced since all this in America has brought it to the forefront. Ultimately, I still believe a women should have the choice - of course she should. However, when you look at the abortion numbers - in the U.K. as well as the US. It is utterly sickening, horrifying, stomach-churning. So so many. It cannot be denied people have become too blasé about it. I personally have three friends/acquaintances (that I know of) who have had abortions when they are already happily married, well off (not rich but certainly comfortable), in their 30s, good health etc. They just already had all the children they wanted and didn’t fancy having another. I was outwardly supported but I did feel shocked deep down. All the stuff about the foetus not being a baby, just a bundle of cells etc is untrue - that is a person and they can feel pain and fear and their life is being ended. Sometimes this is unfortunately necessary and women need to be able to choose but we’ve lost our way culturally, lost our reverence and respect for babies and the fact that it’s seen as no big deal is wrong.

RoseslnTheHospital · 24/06/2022 17:53

Why are people saying that abortion hasn't been banned when states like Missouri have already enacted a ban? The fact that not all states will be doing this isn't relevant. People understand that it isn't a US wide federal ban. But it's predicted that at least 26 states will enact total or near total bans. That's a disaster for women.

Pumperthepumper · 24/06/2022 17:54

Brideandprejudice · 24/06/2022 17:51

I'm a coward for voicing an opposing opinion to hundreds of people?

Yes. Because you’re deflecting and refusing to engage with any of the questions out to you. Because you know you’re wrong. Absolute cowardice.

ThickCutSteakChips · 24/06/2022 17:54

The same people who are so pro life, are also perfectly happy to watch primary school kids be slaughtered in their classrooms. They are not pro life in any way. They just hate women.

TammyOne · 24/06/2022 17:55

I am absolutely appalled.
Fucking America.
All life is sacred eh? I keep thinking of the little girls, victims of abuse, forced to give birth. Clearly the arsehole rich men making these decisions don’t think those girls lives are sacred.
Not read full thread just too upsetting right now.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 24/06/2022 17:55

@Brideandprejudice so if you care about lives being saved, why are you happy for the deaths of Women that this will cause?

Jumperoo56370000 · 24/06/2022 17:55

I’ve always been pro choice, even though I do think life begins at conception. Having a child, a much longed-for one after losses, has only made me more sure that noone should be forced to carry and birth an unwanted pregnancy.

Kidsaretryingtodestroyme · 24/06/2022 17:56

‘As the PP said, in the UK it is typically left leaning women who are fighting to retain the legal distinction between the sex and therefore our sex based rights.

If "men" can get pregnant then how is abortion a woman's rights issue? You can no longer argue that restricting abortion disadvantages women only. We all know it's an issue which only affects females but how do you make that argument without legal recognition of sex. It's really frightening how people cannot see where all this is heading.

For anyone who thinks this is not coming our way you need to wake up.’

Look, there are nuances here. I 100% am not saying trans is not an issue. Be it in sports or other contexts. I do believe a minority of predators will use trans rights as a way to harm women. Predators will use any ‘in’ they can. I also believe some of the TRAs on Twitter etc genuinely hate women and wish us ill.

However, in the wider context they are also on the extreme of the MRA flank and there aren’t many of them with power. We must fight the immediate threat firsts, the ones with the power. We need to see the bigger picture. Saying ‘I will vote for powerful men, who actually have the track record in, and have the power today, to harm women’ in order to prevent some screaming men on Twitter from calling themselves women’ is fucking stupid.

Women of colour like myself (mixed race) who are usually the frontline women to feel the impact of anti women policies feel let down by women, who are often white, voting for right wing governments based on the single issue of trans incursions into women spaces. We are usually the first to feel economic and other hardships.

Focus on the people with power for now and when they are dealt with we can focus on those who wish us harm who have less power to fuck us over. Women of colour are the canary in the coal mine.

Now look where we all are.

Queenoftheashes · 24/06/2022 17:56

Lesserspottedmama · 24/06/2022 17:53

My thoughts on abortion have become a lot more nuanced since all this in America has brought it to the forefront. Ultimately, I still believe a women should have the choice - of course she should. However, when you look at the abortion numbers - in the U.K. as well as the US. It is utterly sickening, horrifying, stomach-churning. So so many. It cannot be denied people have become too blasé about it. I personally have three friends/acquaintances (that I know of) who have had abortions when they are already happily married, well off (not rich but certainly comfortable), in their 30s, good health etc. They just already had all the children they wanted and didn’t fancy having another. I was outwardly supported but I did feel shocked deep down. All the stuff about the foetus not being a baby, just a bundle of cells etc is untrue - that is a person and they can feel pain and fear and their life is being ended. Sometimes this is unfortunately necessary and women need to be able to choose but we’ve lost our way culturally, lost our reverence and respect for babies and the fact that it’s seen as no big deal is wrong.

Fuck off

lljkk · 24/06/2022 17:56

Map from WaPo.

To be totally gutted for American women?
Artichokeleaves · 24/06/2022 17:57

ThickCutSteakChips · 24/06/2022 17:54

The same people who are so pro life, are also perfectly happy to watch primary school kids be slaughtered in their classrooms. They are not pro life in any way. They just hate women.

Or the kids with disabilities without services because the state can't/won't afford them, whose medical needs bankrupt their families, the kids being multiply abused in awful foster care who end up with extreme end trauma and get no services either, frequently ending up in prison once they hit eighteen. Parents in America send six year olds to school with bulletproof backpacks for fucks sake.

Pro life my arse.

ThickCutSteakChips · 24/06/2022 17:57

I always remember, after having watched Dirty Dancing for several years and the Penny storyline going completely over my head, realising what actually happened to Penny in that film. And thinking it was so nuts that she wasn't able to get an abortion from a doctor and had to go to the 'butcher' with the fold out table. I couldn't get my head around it, and how it hadn't even been that long ago.

And now so much of America is right back there. Its crazy.

Pumperthepumper · 24/06/2022 17:58

I think the problem is people are not blasé enough about abortion.

RoseslnTheHospital · 24/06/2022 17:58

@Lesserspottedmama the overwhelming majority of abortions in the UK at done at under 10 weeks. It's emotive and incorrect to call a < 10 week foetus a person that can feel pain and fear. If you want to reduce the number of abortions then the best way to do that is to provide easily available early abortion, easy access to contraception, high quality sex and relationship education, and support for families, especially those in difficult circumstances. It's really as simple as that.

Oestrogelsmuggler · 24/06/2022 17:58

America is a basket case. Everyone is entitled to carry handguns, but women can't have abortions.

We'll be visiting like the Japanese tourists in the Handmaid's Tale, watching in fascinated horror.

Toomuchred · 24/06/2022 17:58

Lesserspottedmama · 24/06/2022 17:53

My thoughts on abortion have become a lot more nuanced since all this in America has brought it to the forefront. Ultimately, I still believe a women should have the choice - of course she should. However, when you look at the abortion numbers - in the U.K. as well as the US. It is utterly sickening, horrifying, stomach-churning. So so many. It cannot be denied people have become too blasé about it. I personally have three friends/acquaintances (that I know of) who have had abortions when they are already happily married, well off (not rich but certainly comfortable), in their 30s, good health etc. They just already had all the children they wanted and didn’t fancy having another. I was outwardly supported but I did feel shocked deep down. All the stuff about the foetus not being a baby, just a bundle of cells etc is untrue - that is a person and they can feel pain and fear and their life is being ended. Sometimes this is unfortunately necessary and women need to be able to choose but we’ve lost our way culturally, lost our reverence and respect for babies and the fact that it’s seen as no big deal is wrong.

But the answer to this isn’t to take away the choice in the first place, surely? That’s not a nuanced response to a nuanced issue is it?

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 24/06/2022 17:59

Oh well done. JP Morgan. If I were in America I'd move my banking to them.

Iamnotamermaid · 24/06/2022 17:59

I really do not understand America. Everyone has the right to a gun so they can kill others ( under the guise of self defence) but women cannot get abortions.

Becoming more like the Handmaids Tale everyday.

Jott · 24/06/2022 18:00

that is a person and they can feel pain and fear and their life is being ended

This right here is bullshit.

Sentience and pain response are not developed until much later in the pregnancy, past the point of abortion for all except medical cases.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 24/06/2022 18:00

They just already had all the children they wanted and didn’t fancy having another

What's wrong with that? Should they have all the children you fancy them having?

viques · 24/06/2022 18:01

RIP USA Women’s Body Autonomy.

Toomuchred · 24/06/2022 18:01

I’ve literally joined this site to contribute to this issue, so I’m not up to speed with the way it works, sorry!
I’m just so dreadfully sorry, angry, bemused, confused, baffled by this decision.

Cartoonmom · 24/06/2022 18:01

This is so difficult to accept, even though we knew it was coming. Yesterday the gun decision and now this. It's exhausting living in this country. I really hope my kid chooses to go to college in another country.

ReneBumsWombats · 24/06/2022 18:02

Lesserspottedmama · 24/06/2022 17:53

My thoughts on abortion have become a lot more nuanced since all this in America has brought it to the forefront. Ultimately, I still believe a women should have the choice - of course she should. However, when you look at the abortion numbers - in the U.K. as well as the US. It is utterly sickening, horrifying, stomach-churning. So so many. It cannot be denied people have become too blasé about it. I personally have three friends/acquaintances (that I know of) who have had abortions when they are already happily married, well off (not rich but certainly comfortable), in their 30s, good health etc. They just already had all the children they wanted and didn’t fancy having another. I was outwardly supported but I did feel shocked deep down. All the stuff about the foetus not being a baby, just a bundle of cells etc is untrue - that is a person and they can feel pain and fear and their life is being ended. Sometimes this is unfortunately necessary and women need to be able to choose but we’ve lost our way culturally, lost our reverence and respect for babies and the fact that it’s seen as no big deal is wrong.

Pro choice as long as the choice always meets with your personal approval is not pro choice. The nature of freedom is that people don't have to do what you think they should do. That's what choice means.

You either believe in forcing women to have children against their wishes or you don't.