Debating between these two countries. Which is better to bring children up in?

[Mixedfeelings89]

England or America. I am from England, Husband is American. We are not rich, nor poor therefore we would be living a average lifestyle. My only concern is which country will be better for the children? If we didn't have children I wouldn't really care which country either way. I just want the best for the children. Children are not yet school age, if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance.

I'd move to the US but only because I'd be able to afford a good life there and would get a decent healthcare package. My wife and kids would move too, but they're grown up now.

I have a definite love/hate relationship with the US and the recent Roe vs Wade thing doesn't help. I worry about food more than guns, as you can never quite tell what's in it and can't trust the veg either!

The UK is definitely turning to shit and I wonder how bad things are going to get before civil unrest starts. We're close to it now as the fabric is falling to bits. The entire civil service (in all forms) is fucked and on a knife edge. Education, NHS, law, policing, fire services. And the fringe stuff too like rail. Everything is going up and I worry for the less financially able. I love the UK but we're in serious trouble and have a right cock for a PM.

Personally, Canada would get my vote.

@unname I have been to the US many times.

I spent 5 weeks over there one summer trying to decide whether to move my family over (massive NO).

I have friends over there and have visited them
many times. Heard some shocking stories from my friend in LA on the current state of homelessness there.

The OP is trying to decide whether to move to Florida. Not New York, not LA..

It’s true that you get MUCH greater disparities of school standard in the US. But you do
also get that in the UK to a certain extent.

My personal experience was that American school was far easier than English. I took several AP classes which were way below A Level standard of difficulty. And yet they earned me college credit! But then on the plus side I needed to spend so little time on homework that I had a very rich extra curricular life.

Anyway I was interested in this school question so checked the PISA rankings. UK and US come out reasonably close on average. US ahead on reading; UK ahead on maths and science.Overall, (2018) UK came in at 13 and US at 25.

@mathanxiety You don’t seem to understand. I can’t do anything about road traffic accidents- they happen in every country.

I can choose not to bring my child up in a country where guns are the leading cause of deaths for children.

Road deaths may happen in every country but not to anything like the same extent.

If you started thinking about road deaths you definitely wouldn't go anywhere near the USA. Frankly you wouldn't leave the UK for anywhere apart from Scandinavia. Anywhere south of Calais or west of Cornwall is asking for trouble on the roads IMO, but the USA is particularly shocking.

I’d go for Canada as an in between. Free healthcare, less guns and much friendlier than the UK!

Don't they generally get shitty holiday allowances too as in America? The idea of only having 10 days annual leave is too depressing to contemplate.

There are definitely better and worse countries/areas for road deaths. Generally the better ones would be those that don't have such strong and ubiquitous car culture. Personally I wouldn't want to live anywhere where I or my children had to rely on cars for the majority of day-to-day transportation - which is (one of the reasons) why I don't live in the UK or the US. Car culture in the UK is awful and one of the major downsides of the country for me, but I bet it's even worse in the US.

Nowhere is perfect but the US has too many deal breakers for me to be a place I'd consider living.

My mistake. Most of your comments seem to be based on stories you’ve heard and your feelings rather than facts.

I’ve told the OP multiple times that I wouldn’t live in Florida and would stay close to her own supportive family. But I do it without denigrating an entire country.

Google says the homeless population today in UK is 227K with a population of only 67m people.

It’s 500K in US with a population of 329.5 million people. And that’s not the “Unsheltered” figure, it includes the people living in temporary housing, living with family, etc

That would suggest a pretty massive crisis of homelessness in UK.

Yet I’m not suggesting anyone promoting life in UK is heartless or and “I’m ok jack” type because of your homelessness crisis.

I live in the US and am getting ready to move back to the UK. You would be mad to move here at the moment.

I think that’s an excellent measure of livability. It would be amazing to live somewhere walkable and with a solid transportation system.

My little town has objectives that include becoming more walkable but frankly, all the sidewalks in the world won’t resolve the fact that the necessities (pharmacy, grocery) are too far away for a reasonable person to walk. We don’t have a proper town center, either. It’s not a new community but still has more of a suburb feel. It’s butted up against a larger (but not large by US standards) city.

The school situation here in the US and the outrageous cost of University is one more reason not to move here if you have children.

Even within one city and especially within a state, schools can have wildly different resources. It’s common sense that within a state all the resources should be pooled and divided evenly. But our property tax burden varies from one school district to another and it would require a massive change to make this happen. It would be very unpopular political.

I moved recently from one town within the same county to another, and pay wayyyy less taxes than before, yet my current school district is far superior to the prior one.

(if it’s not common knowledge, property taxes typically fund the school system and are assessed by the

@unname

Just to be clear - I wouldn’t live anywhere in the U.S because of your gun culture. The recent abortion rulings have compounded this as a country I would never be happy in.

All the other issues such as education/homelessness/road traffic accidents are just a mere distraction from these two glaring issues. And no wonder you seize these other issues and try and distract/focus on them. Because you can’t defend the gun culture and you’re basically admitting you’re ok living in a country where children get shot at school.

Enough of the distractions. Most people have said quite clearly the TWO massive reasons they wouldn’t entertain living over there. And I don’t give a shit whether it never happens in your town or you’ve never seen a gun therefore it’s ok. It’s not ok. This thread has been a real eye opener as to why nothing changes over there.

I was just responding to one of your posts which was about homelessness. Just having a conversation about a topic you mentioned yourself.

I don’t really care about your ugly judgements and accusations about people. I surely was not encouraging you to migrate.

Ugly judgements? What about your gun culture and kids being shot at school as a reason not to move there? Ok. But I’m pleased it doesn’t keep you awake at night. It would me.

It’s impossible to have a conversation with a battering ram. First time you are personally asking me about this.

You have already proven that you way of engaging will not lead to anything productive for either of us because you already know what everyone else is thinking and you “know” that you are right. You obviously have nothing to learn, so I don’t see the point.

What on earth am I right about? That you have a gun culture? Ok argue against that?

Bizarre post.

I’ve stated my own personal opinion why I couldn’t live in your county (guns/abortion rulings). If that makes me a battering ram then so be it. The OP asked for opinions.

I do feel quite strongly about those issues. It’s a shame many people who live there don’t.

What do I need to learn exactly? How you justify kids heads getting blown off at school? No thanks.

You should all be as angry as I am - I don’t even live there and I’m furious.

Thoughts and prayers eh? (And a lot of heads in the sand).

There is no way I would raise my kids in America.

Guns, health care costs, poor holiday allowances, racism, oppression of women. Not something I want my kids to be part of.

Are you the lady who was posting the other day with the American husband and he wants you to move to America with the kids?

You've obviously never lived in the US or met many Americans. If you had, you would know that many many Americans ARE very angry and upset about abortion and guns. In many states, there are (or were - apparently states now can't control guns, another fun SCOTUS ruling) gun control laws and abortion is most certainly allowed. People may be angry about what is happening at the federal level but also recognise that if they are living in a blue state that this affects them much less. The fact is that change is hard because of how the US political system is set up. Trump lost the popular vote, most Americans support gun control, most Americans did not want Roe overturned. There is a structural defect in how the US political system is set up that biases against urban and more populous states - and that means favouring more conservative and rural states. Republicans know this but don't seem to care that they are going against what most Americans want.

Also, guns and abortion are very improtant but to make them more important than other issues such as homelessness and healthcare shows your preferences but it doesn't mean everyone else's priorities, especially those who live there, have to be the same.

It would be a cold day in hell before I chose America over the UK.

1. D Trump and his merry band of GOP nutters.
2. Women's inequality/reproductive rights
3. Gun violence

Lots more reasons but they are arbitrary and subjective.

@smashmakesmash my post was directed to a few on here getting distracted by road traffic accidents. Or questioning whether I felt my child was safe here (safer than in a country with guns yes) I have American friends. I know many are unhappy with the situation over there. Obviously.

I was directing my post to those that were claiming guns weren’t an issue as they’d had no
school shootings in their towns. And why wasn’t I protesting about special needs provision in schools over here?

The U.K. is far from perfect for many reasons but I couldn’t live in the U.S because of the gun control laws over there and the fact you are back in the dark ages for women with the recent abortion rulings. Nothing else really matters.

@Delatron
I wouldn't say nothing else matters. If you live in Cali or NYC, guns and abortion might affect you less as there is gun control and you can access abortion. I mean, it's not like all is hunky dory in Europe or the UK. Abortion is restricted in Ireland and N Ireland, Poland and Malta (totally banned) but no one says they won't move to Europe because abortion bans are allowed.
To not move, say, to NYC because Georgia has banned abortion would be weird.

I take your point @smashmakesmash - I don’t really agree with the comparison to Europe especially now we’ve left. Sadly. And the cultures are so different across Europe.

Though I didn’t appreciate how separate you consider yourself in LA and NYC to the rest of the US.

Anyway, the OP is considering Florida so I think most of the arguments still stand. But it’s personal. The OP did not even mention guns in her OP so may not be something that bothers her.

@Delatron I think the US is very diverse. Sure, it's obviously far more unified politically and economically than Europe but in terms of viewpoints and culture, it's poles apart. I lived in urban and suburban NE blue states. I can honestly say, aside from police officers, I never saw a gun and no one I knew had one or wanted one. Abortion was, and still is, accessible and legal. I personally did not know one person who supported Trump, gun rights or was against abortion rights.

I don't live in the US now and personally have a preference for the UK and Europe in general for many reasons but I can honestly say that abortion and gun rights were marginal in making that decision. Access to health care, social benefits and the welfare state, work conditions, infrastructure, food regulations - they were all far more important to me in my day to day life in urban NE coast America . It's not that I don't think gun rights and abortion rights aren't important - they totally are, hugely, and I'm jsut as outraged by what the SCOTUS has done as the next person. But if I were offered an amazing job in the US in the same area that I lived before, I'd definitely consider it and guns/abortion would not really figure in my decision-making as they wouldn't really impact me. Your chances of gun crime if you don't have a gun yourself and live in a state with gun control are really minimal.

But like you said, OP is considering Florida and I'd certainly take pause there. And as for states like Georgia, Tennesse, Mississippi etc - almost certainly not and there I think reproductive rights plus guns would play more of a role if I had to make that decision.

It's just the blanket statements about never moving to the US because of guns or abortion seem totally bizarre and I suspect that it was never actually a realistic option for any of the posters since it's not like you could just up and move to the US anyway!!

smash Principles, perhaps?