Debating between these two countries. Which is better to bring children up in?

[Mixedfeelings89]

England or America. I am from England, Husband is American. We are not rich, nor poor therefore we would be living a average lifestyle. My only concern is which country will be better for the children? If we didn't have children I wouldn't really care which country either way. I just want the best for the children. Children are not yet school age, if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance.

America is great if you are white, rich and doesn’t have a problem turning a blind eye to those struggling. Lots of people here believe everybody is given a chance to better themselves. It’s not their problem if not everyone “makes it”.

Your average person here cannot understand that opportunities, education, health, etc is not equal accessible to all, equally.

Not a great place if you have a moral compass. ☹️

Maybe spend less time flying over and more time on the ground before condemning the food options and diet of vast swathes of the continent? Even smaller American cities have lots of good ethnic food, including Mexican.

For goodness sake mathanxiety. I’ve spent a lot of time in the flyover states. Everything I’ve talked about on this thread has come from my personal experience of living in the US. In the urban US and the rural US. In the rich US and the poor US. And trust me, in my RURAL (aka not wealthy suburb of Chicago) Wal Mart, no way could you buy decent produce. Hella nice guns n ammo though.

I mean, the UK is getting like that too. Let's not mince words about it. The US certainly has problems; I won't deny that. But on this particular point, neither country has the moral high ground.

You've been very clear about your own perspective on gun ownership. Which is that they are of no concern to you. That's fine. But anyone else considering a move to a different country should entertain multiple perspectives.

It's possible to live in the US and never think about guns but a wise person would research as much as they can to learn about what another place is like before visiting or moving there.

Guns are always in the news. Either local crime coverage or national news. It's not limited to a race issue but since you bring that up, if a country experiences a significant level of violence due to racial tensions, that is another factor they have to consider.

This week alone there has been news coverage about Biden getting heckled by a Parkland shooting victim's father (at The White House), coverage of the investigation into the police response to the Uvalde school shooting (not race related), coverage of the Fourth of July parade shooting (not race related), coverage of the man in downtown Baltimore shot at an intersection by squeegee kids (possibly race related, but also random). Fourth of July weekend also contained coverage of at least two major events in different cities that devolved into chaos when thousands of people panicked and fled when they thought they heard shots

None of this is normal. It is possible to disregard the issue of gun violence in some areas. Some places are more violent than others but no place is immune.

My grampa had a shotgun in the farm is not the same as my neighbor's fifteen year old got an AR 15 for Christmas.

My father's side of the family also kept loaded guns in the house. They lived in red states. When he lived in the city he kept his loaded handguns throughout the house, one near the bed and at least one on the side table next to his recliner. In case.

When he retired and moved to the country he did the same but also kept some long guns near the doors, those were meant to be handy if animals attacked, either boars or dogs. He only worried about alligators when he was near water, which is sensible.

I don't say this to be alarmist. I just say this because what he was doing was perfectly normal for where he lived. But it is something that you have to figure out where your comfort level is.

He always carried a handgun either in his car or on his person, as was his right to do so. Anyone moving to the US from the UK would be well advised to understand that there is a possibility that people they interact with may be armed even if you are not aware of a weapon or don't ever think about them.

My children’s pediatrician advised me, 10
years ago, to always ask about the gun situation before a play date. Are guns kept in the house? Are they secured in a locked cabinet, etc? Main town in the NW. Amazon headquarters.

That’s absolute standard here. We don’t worry soda, or too much sugar being served. We worry about guns.

No but trust me it is a lot worse In the US. The numbers of homelessness and everyday gun deaths are pretty shocking.
Even in perfectly blue California you go down the tenderloin in San Fran and look a the local papers and omg.

It doesn't strike me as a healthy way to raise a family. Sounds like you have made a balanced decision. It cannot have been easy.

IMO it is best if children grow up to think of others not just themselves in life.

User48751490

“IMO it is best if children grow up to think of others not just themselves in life.”

This. A million times.

So this has basically descended to saying anyone who brings their kids up in the US and likes it is morally bankrupt and is instilling selfish me first beliefs. Talk about a massive overgeneralization. The people I know are far more civic minded and giving than anyone I know in the US, volunteering is the norm and people in positions of privilege do a lot to give back. This might just be where I have lived but I also find the general sense of optimism far healthier than the UK where I find people to be far more negative and find joy in cutting people down and other peoples’ failure.

That should say people are more civic minded than the people I know in the UK. Maybe it’s because we have less of a safety net in the US so that would be a fair counter to this. Bit not everyone is me me me

I totally agree on both the sense of civic duty and optimism/encouragement of others. I do think there can be a sense that the US is the epicentre of the universe, but I’ve never found that translates to ‘me me me’.

As you say, I think there may be a link between the sense of community and the lack of safety net - I’ve lost count of the amount of pancake breakfasts/spaghetti dinners I’ve attended to help fund someone’s medical expenses - the amount of support from the community for people in need was extraordinary, and yet those same people were vehemently opposed to universal healthcare which would negate the requirement for such support in the first place. But the holes in the UK’s safety net are getting bigger and bigger, so..

britinnyc

Now experiences may differ. But my American husband and I find hard to live in such a divide society. Yes, I see a lot of charitable events. But change in policy, healthcare for all, gun control, etc is too much change! Now back to the charitable donations.

The Tenderloin really is an extreme situation. Homelessness in the Bay Area is out of control. (And that area is not conservative)

My area is quite interesting as it is liberal, people believe in government here much more than many places (after all it's where many of them work!) but yes there is quite a lot of community spirit here. I would say one thing you do have to get used to is that in the UK we often associate being religious with right wing evangelicals and while that's true in parts of the US, especially down south, it isn't everywhere. "Religious" means all sorts of things and people are often quite involved with that. My county is the 3rd most religiously diverse in the USA.

People here are also active politically, very much so. Definitely a place where you'd attend the spaghetti dinner or chicken BBQ and then go home and write petitions.

My community is also very Blue. It was festooned with Bernie signs when he last ran, no Hillary signs to speak of, and not a single Trump sign. There's a huge amount of fundraising, and it is very professionally done by the average person, not the wealthy or the equivalent of the royal family, because Americans get involved in fundraising from a relatively young age.

Private elementary schools like the one my DCs attended made a huge amount of their running costs from fundraising of all sorts. They get no state financial support whatsoever. This is perhaps an aspect of America that would appeal to MNers.

I'm American, and my vote is for England. America has too many problems and they're only going to intensify over the next decade.

You've been very clear about your own perspective on gun ownership. Which is that they are of no concern to you.

That's a rather mean spirited mischaracterisation of what I've posted here.

I have said repeatedly on this thread that Americans in general do not live their lives in fear of guns, and this isn't because they don't care about gun-related deaths or don't appreciate that guns are dangerous. Living in fear isn't really an option.

Women are well aware of the dangers out there but still go out. This doesn't mean that when a woman is raped or murdered it's of no concern.

My father's side of the family also kept loaded guns in the house.

"Also"?

Where did I say any guns kept by my family were loaded?

Guns are always in the news. Either local crime coverage or national news. It's not limited to a race issue but since you bring that up, if a country experiences a significant level of violence due to racial tensions, that is another factor they have to consider.

And you've got that wrong too.
Gun-related crime in urban areas, which mostly means black-on-black shootings and is often gang related, is frequently the subject of local news reports because it reinforces a stereotype of black people as thugs.

The toll of gun violence in urban areas doesn't make the international news for some reason, can't imagine what it might be.

And trust me, in my RURAL (aka not wealthy suburb of Chicago) Wal Mart, no way could you buy decent produce. Hella nice guns n ammo though.
@BlackandBlueBird

There are no guns available in my local Walmart in the Chicago suburbs. You can buy live bait there though, from a fridge at the back.

And a glance at the organic range as well as the fresh veg and fruit offerings of several Walmarts around Illinois chosen at random from a list of over 160 belies your claim that there is 'no way could you buy decent produce' in a rural Walmart.

It's possible the entire state of Illinois is an outlier among Walmarts. It's possible I just got lucky and picked the ten best Walmarts in areas where people tend to have no alternative to Walmart for grocery shopping. Quite.

Fwiw, my local Walmart is not located in a wealthy suburb. No Walmarts are located in wealthy suburbs. You should know this given your years of experience of life in the US.

No Walmarts are located in wealthy suburbs.

Only because you’re so obsessed with picking apart every post that disagrees with you, as almost all do, they certainly can be. I’ve only spent a lot of time in one wealthy suburb - as I said, most of my time in the States has either been spent in the boonies or big cities - but it did indeed have a Wal Mart. www.walmart.com/store/3213-the-woodlands-tx

My county is notorious for keeping Walmart out, but our only Walmart is not located in a poor area. Their other attempts to open another one weren't, either. Their strategy for opening stores isn't what it once was.

On the other side of DC, there's a Walmart in Tysons Corner.