Debating between these two countries. Which is better to bring children up in?

[Mixedfeelings89]

England or America. I am from England, Husband is American. We are not rich, nor poor therefore we would be living a average lifestyle. My only concern is which country will be better for the children? If we didn't have children I wouldn't really care which country either way. I just want the best for the children. Children are not yet school age, if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance.

There's not a chance in hell i would raise children in America, especially if they're girls.

Yep, ditto. Disturbing how many Americans seem to be in denial. I guess that's the point of the patriotic indoctrination.

Yep, ditto. Disturbing how many Americans seem to be in denial. I guess that's the point of the patriotic indoctrination.

Yep. Disturbing is the right word.

It is disturbing.

Its been very eye-opening for me - not in a good way.

Ah but do you have lived experience of being disturbed, Delatron? Otherwise you're not allowed to be disturbed!

Not everyone gets a huge bill. I don't. Lots of people don't. That's actually the problem.
I suppose what I am curious about regarding healthcare in the USA, is the difference between people who have a good package through their work and those who don't. So it seems that generally you, or someone in your immediate family, must work in order to get good healthcare. In the UK, regardless of whether you work or not at any level, E.g. part-time, gig economy, retired, studying, unemployed, SAHP, carer, or even just lazy, you get access to the same healthcare as everyone else which, in my very wide and varied experience, is very good

@ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave I know! I’m not allowed to have an opinion on anything unless I have a LIVED experience of it…bizarre

This thread keeps on entertaining me. 2 large/bad meals in a hotel restaurant in Canada mean the food culture of 2 countries is “dire” and it is enough to right off living in those countries. Personally I struggle with the food when I go back to the UK, I find the food where I live in CA to be far better, the avocados alone would be a reason never to move back to the UK but obviously the sad state of UK supermarket avocados would not be a deciding factor in where I raise my family

No, the problem is actually that it is much more complicated than that! I just had to check the stats: 66% of Americans have private coverage, 54% through employers.

If you are elderly or receive Social Security Disability, you have Medicare from the government. This doesn't cover everything, and many people buy a supplementary plan, but the plans are standardized by the government.

if you are poor (how poor depends on on your state, and also if you have another qualifying condition--for example the limits for pregnant women and children are quite high) you have Medicaid, where everything is free, and importantly, it covers home health and long term care (Medicare does not) There is also CHIP, the insurance for kids, which in some states has no income limit and is either free or low cost depending on income.

Then there is employer insurance. Your employer might offer different plans, and you have to decide if you prefer a lower premium upfront or a lower deductible when you get sick. Your employer decides how much of the premium they will kick in. This effectively extra income you never see--the incentive is that they don't pay employment taxes on it. But some companies will pay 80% or 100% of the premium for the employee but nothing for dependents.

The ACA did at least fix a few things, one of which is that you don't have employer insurance you can buy it on your own, and there are subsidies.

On top of that, each insurance plan

On top of that, each plan has its own "network" of doctors and hospitals (often quite generous but not always). The care you receive may not vary, the doctor may not even know what sort of insurance you have. But it is all a massive administrative headache. There was a trend here, and we are now seeing the negative consequences, towards "consumer directed health care" where individuals had more exposure to costs in the hopes they would make better decisions. I don't know who thought this up because unsurprisingly it doesn't work very well. People don't make very good decisions, and they spend more time worrying about things that are very unlikely to happen (needing expensive specialist care for rare conditions) than about things like primary care and obstetrics that happen every day. The best hospitals in the USA are really wonderful. I've been in a few. But far more gets done by ordinary family doctors.

The American system is like some horrendous structure that people keep adding to and subtracting from, and it needs to be torn down and rebuilt. The problem is that a lot of people are afraid it will get worse.

Baloney, I'm exhausted just reading that, never mind trying to understand it! I know the UK is tiny compared to the USA so comparisons are not easy, but I still think that every citizen having access to generally the same healthcare is a good thing. I know lots of people will say that having equal access to the NHS ain't worth having, but all I can say is that I have very varied and extensive experience which has been at least good and often amazing

I know lots of wonderful people in the US but couldn't live there, due to the gun violence, disparity in access to healthcare and terrible nutrition.

The terrible nutrition keeps coming up but the fact that the fact that terrible junk is available doesn’t mean everyone eats it. The problem with fast food/cheap processed food is exactly the same in the UK and is a far. Lee complex issue. It is also much easier to eat healthily in much of the US, restaurants with healthy food, great produce year round. I stifle to find health options when I visit the UK, all the quick things to grab for lunch are typically still very heavy compared to what I am used to eating. I realize that cooking at home is different from grabbing lunch at M&S but my point is just that the UK isn’t exactly the greatest when it comes to healthy fresh food and has all the same nutrition issues, the standards for food additives etc don’t really make the UK any better based on that alone

The terrible nutrition keeps coming up but the fact that the fact that terrible junk is available doesn’t mean everyone eats it. The problem with fast food/cheap processed food is exactly the same in the UK...

Not exactly. The grocery gap is far more of a problem in the US, with huge numbers of people literally unable to access non-convenience food.

It is also much easier to eat healthily in much of the US, restaurants with healthy food, great produce year round.

Im sorry but this is just not true. I think you’ve mentioned living in CA and presumably NYC. NYC has amazing food. CA is, I think, the biggest producer of the States. It is not like that in much of flyover America. Even upstate NY where I have a lot of family - massive struggle to get healthy food without cooking it at home. There’s a reason America has such awful obesity problems.
It’s not good in the Uk either, for sure! But I don’t think this is an area where Americans can put their hands up and say ‘we are doing better’.

Not trying to say we are doing better in the US just that the UK isn’t really different when it comes to people picking cheap processed food over cooking at home for a variety of reasons. There are healthy options even at fast food restaurants yet people choose not to take them, that is a different issue than people saying they won’t live in the US because of crap nutrition. Even if your only place to buy food is Walmart or Costco you can make healthy food at home on a tight budget no matter where you live in the US. The fact that people don’t is a whole different cultural issue

Even if your only place to buy food is Walmart or Costco you can make healthy food at home on a tight budget no matter where you live in the US.

But there are people in the US who don’t have access to a Walmart or a Costco. Food deserts are a big problem.

Im going to disagree with you on the Walmart thing too, I used to shop at Walmart fairly regularly but never for healthy food. Usually for things like underpants! Not sure about Costco in the US as we only had a Sam’s Club, again, no way you could shop healthily in there whether on a budget or not. Costco in the Uk is quite pricey but no idea if that’s representative. I’ve shopped at farmers markets in New England, the PNW and CA and they are never cheap. Produce from roadside stalls, absolutely, but that’s quite limited depending on where you live.

Whatever is going on and whatever the reasons, the US has a significantly higher rate of obesity than the UK. Now you could say that it’s easy to avoid becoming obese. I would say that probably depends which part of the States you live in and what your income is. One thing I’ve been really shocked to see is the number of my American friends’ kids becoming overweight - these are active kids with slim parents, grandparents etc. I’m not sure why that’s happening but given that I know these families and I know they are not over feeders, I know they are home cookers, it suggests that portion sizes/hidden calories might be some of the culprits. I mentioned upthread how I found it very strange that corn syrup was hidden in all sorts of food you just wouldn’t find added sugar in in the UK.

This in itself wouldn’t put me off moving back to the States by the way! It’s just an interesting/sad question.

Baloney, I'm exhausted just reading that,
I'm sure no one cares now but that should NIOT have said "baloney"! 😂

The UK obesity rate is catching up to the US (29% vs 36%), and food deserts are a problem there. The latest research says that poverty is a bigger issue than food deserts. It's a question of calories per dollarfresh produce scores poorlyand also, when budgets are tight, parents especially don't want to risk money on unfamiliar food that may or may not be eaten. This is why one of the more successful experiments has been to double SNAP (food stamps) when spent at a farmers' market. When it comes to restaurants, fast food places really colonize poor neighbourhoods, which further impacts nutrition.

They don't entirely know why the obesity rate is rising. Sugary drinks are known to be one culprit, but it really doesn't explain rising weight in affluent children. It is known that chronic stress impacts weight, and there's significant variations in obesity not only by region, but by race and education level. There's often a huge emphasis on nutrition when it comes to obesity, but genetics and social factors have a much bigger impact than you might think.

Not all. There do seem to be a lot of Brits on this site who are very pro-US. I guess that's nice. Also very flattering. But guns are a huge issue in the US and always at the forefront of the news cycle. Either gun crimes or gun control proposals. It's the rate person in the US who never considers them.

I live in a blue state. I know a hell of a lot of people who have guns. If you do move here you really need to ask if someone has guns in their home if you are scheduling playdates. You might be really surprised at who does, and you have to figure out what your comfort level is with that.

Food is a different issue. It basically boils down to how our government subsidizes agribusiness. Like everything, if you have more to spend you can source better quality. Unless you're really out in the boonies but even then it's just an extra effort.

Florida sucks. Unless you're a tourist or retiree.

@BlackandBlueBird I shop at Walmart all the time for food.

I buy a lot of fresh fruit and veg there, as well as very reasonably priced frozen fruit and veg. I buy frozen fish (not fish fingers), nice cheeses incl imported cheeses, Greek yogurt, and kefir, and I used to buy a very wholesome whole grain and seed bread, which sadly got discontinued. I buy flour and baking supplies, various items like chia seeds, protein baking powders, organic peanut butter, oat milk, unsweetened vanilla flavoured almond milk, lactose free milk which has the same long life as organic (which is also available in the local Walmart). Also dried and canned beans and tomatoes (though Aldi is cheaper), tins of tuna and sardines, extra virgin olive oil, sunflower oil, dried herbs and spices, herb plants in spring and early summer, and Tetley tea bags.

You absolutely can buy healthy food on a budget in Walmart, even on food stamps, which I had for a while after my divorce.

@Boxowine my dad had a shotgun, in Ireland, as did most of my relatives. His side of the family shot and hunted and mum's side were farmers who kept sheep. Also, one grandfather had served in the Indian Army and one in the IRA. There was a six gun salute at his funeral. I don't know where those individuals kept their guns. I spent many happy hours with my relatives in houses where there was very likely a gun. Maybe people in rural areas tend to get used to guns.

But guns are a huge issue in the US and always at the forefront of the news cycle. Either gun crimes or gun control proposals.
General gun crimes (in cities) are not gun-related news. They are race-related news items. Mass shootings are gun-related news.

It is not like that in much of flyover America.

Maybe spend less time flying over and more time on the ground before condemning the food options and diet of vast swathes of the continent? Even smaller American cities have lots of good ethnic food, including Mexican.

England. After 10 years trying to enjoy our version of the American dream, we are moving back to the UK. No amount of comfort makes living here worthwhile.

We live in the West Cost, i.e. liberal state, great weather, etc, etc. But you would have to be incredibly insensitive and self -centered not to be bothered by what is going on right now. And my experience is that at both macro and micro levels things are messed up here.

Americans are fed this overrated belief in individualism and that America is the best. Very much a me-first-society. This belief is ingrained and permeates all aspects of society. I hate that my children are exposed to these values.

But guns are a huge issue in the US and always at the forefront of the news cycle. Either gun crimes or gun control proposals.
General gun crimes (in cities) are not gun-related news. They are race-related news items. Mass shootings are gun-related news.

So, what are you saying? ‘Come to America - it’s great if you’re white’? Surely not, I must have misunderstood.