Debating between these two countries. Which is better to bring children up in?

[Mixedfeelings89]

England or America. I am from England, Husband is American. We are not rich, nor poor therefore we would be living a average lifestyle. My only concern is which country will be better for the children? If we didn't have children I wouldn't really care which country either way. I just want the best for the children. Children are not yet school age, if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance.

I can't believe this is a serious question. What is "better" about the US than the UK in your opinion OP?

There are two absolutely glaring obvious downsides to living in the States that I can think of without even really having to engage my brain much.

@Delatron I have been to school in America and England. I found the English system to be behind the American one, to the extent I was able to sit year 10 and year 11 in one year and achieve mainly A* with a few A’s without any extra assistance from teachers in the UK. I was so far ahead in maths that I didn’t learn anything in Year 11 at all, I was basically used as a classroom assistant to help children struggling.

The AP and Honors classes are a great benefit, allowing children to excel. In eight grade, two children in my form that excelled at maths were taken to the local high school to take college classes, there are no opportunities like that in Britain to allow children to excel. Everything is done by the curriculum, whether it suits a child or not.

I wouldn’t want to live in a country where fundamentalist religious nutcases are able to influence those in power to make decisions that take women back into the dark ages. But hey, that’s just me.

England is a difficult place at the moment but it is still relatively safe and we have the NHS.

I wouldnt live in the US at the moment and even if this abortion thing is turned around guns worry me.

You could not pay me to live in the states at the minute! Some parts are fine for a holiday, but I definitely would not want to raise children there.

Well, you need to consider more variables:

• where about in the USA would you be living? it is a big country and all the states are different. You will obviously get a very different lifestyle if you settle in New York, California or in a small town in the Deep South...
• What sort of jobs do you do? would you get better career opportunities here or in the USA?
• Do you drive? (easier to get around in the USA if you do)
• What support system (family/friends) do you have in these countries.

and so on.

If I were you I would list all the pros and cons.

I have lived in both countries and I personally love the States but I would only live in certain parts. I would happily move to New York or nearby tomorrow if I could afford a good lifestyle there and health cover because it is so cosmopolitan and vibrant. I lived in California and found it fake and boring after a while.

Your children are small and they would adapt to either lifestyle so I would instead base my decision on what would give all of you a better life, not just the kids.

So no country in which seats in the parliament were reserved for members of the state religion...

America's a third world country with good marketing. I thought you'd at least be considering a normal, functioning country.

The experience of me and other expats I is the exact opposite. For the same school year, on average, UK school pupils show superior performance and have typically covered a lot more curriculum than their US counterparts. Your experience might have been an outlier.

*sorry for the typos, writing in haste

numbertheory I’d say it was fairly obvious what I was referring to. Abortion hasn’t been banned/heavily limited in the UK.

I think this more and more tbh. ^^

Well the news this past week tells you which is the better country for women to live in

I’ve loved there my dad and many of my family live in the states. Nice lifestyle but they have made money those who are not comfortable are very often working two jobs and constantly have to factor in health care when taking jobs

and the poverty is absolutely shocking in cities in California and there is so much wealth about next to thousands living in tents (not seen anything like it here far worse than in Paris)

and we do not have no go areas here
areas we might avoid but not no go areas like many cities in the US do

it's a country of extremes not one I ever feel at home in

You're referring to the appointments to the supreme court by Trump that were made with intent of trying to make it easier for States to limit abortion in order to pander to the majority anti-choice supporters of the Republican party, who ostensibly base their objections in religious belief.

I'm pointing out that the UK isn't free of political and religious interference. The UK has an anti-choice Minister with responsibility for abortion (appointed to please the anti-choice element within the Conservative party) and it has seats reserved in parliament for the Lords Spiritual, Church of England representatives who retain their influence whatever the flavour of government the general population have voted for. And those Lords Spiritual along with the general influence of the Church of England have had significant impact on legislation in the UK and on policy development in Westminster.

Abortion hasn't been heavily restricted across the USA. The UK's restrictions are much heavier than in some US states. Vermont, for instance, actually trusts women to make the decision for themselves at any point and has codified that into law as a right.

I’d go for Canada as an in between. Free healthcare, less guns and much friendlier than the UK! Unless it’s changed a lot since we lived there 15 years ago, much cheaper housing, less sexism (loved that banks etc, always used first name terms rather than Mrs) and a big emphasis on outdoor activities and DC being as independent as possible as early as possible. Kids were lovely, much less swearing than you ever hear over here and most of it ‘Darn’ and that was adults. Here every other word is ‘Fuck’ especially from DC. Bloody cold (but beautiful) in winter depending on where you live though and their baked beans are disgusting (with maple syrup in them!). Holiday entitlement is shit too, similar to US, but in general quality of life is much better IMO.

Still massively regret coming back to the UK.

I did some reading and see that is true. Was also surprised by some other points. Thanks for the link and the info.

@Delatron

But are you desensitised to the issue of road safety for children?

Do stats on traffic related deaths and serious injuries to children not make you consider moving to the Netherlands?

I've heard SEN horror stories from friends in the UK and seen them here too. You would find life in the average US public school district far easier than life in the average UK school.

@Delatron, your ideas about US education are apparently based on the experience of 'friends' and it's 'well known' that American standards are low.

And yet, American students get accepted into universities across the land that are in the top 50 worldwide, and graduate in their tens of thousands. How could this happen?

Could it possibly be that American students are not actually 'behind'? Is it possible that a different curriculum emphasises different elements of any given subject? Could it be that your friend's child was not the brightest?

You can look up the 'leveling up' report yourself.

The picture it paints is bleak.

To sum it up, the north is fucked. Leveling up isn't going to happen.

@mathanxiety the disparity in US education is well known. Not just public vs private but also within larger districts and also suburban vs inner city schools. That's one of the reasons why we have suburbs.

OPs children will have a very different educational experience in Grosse Pointe, MI or Newton, MA than they will if they relocate to a small town in Mississippi or an inner city neighborhood in Gary, IN. Or if she can afford to send them to a private school.

Vermont's state law will mean absolutely nothing if the Republicans are able to go ahead and federally ban abortion, as they've already clearly stated is their intent, you get that right? And how does one state having pro-choice laws help women in the states which have already having extremely restricted/virtually banned abortion? Have you not heard what happens when women have to travel to more permissive states, doctors being killed etc? I don't think it compares to the UK's current red tape.

I suspect you’ve never even been there.

THIS
My kids got an excellent education in the US. My friend with a SEN kid in the same district had access to services you could only dream of in the UK. But this was in a high performing school district where you pay $$$ in property taxes/rent. If you're in a rural mostly black school district in Mississippi, you won't get the same education (there was a whole series on this in the NY Times).
Again, as with healthcare, if you are individually lucky, education and health will be really excellent in the US. But the system as a whole stinks. Whether health insurance or the system of local school districts raising funds through property taxes which obviously is going to discriminate against the poorer areas or, indeed, areas with fewer children in public schools (and is less likely to be subsidized by the state in more conservative ones)

A lot of us have. Do you mix with any normal people who live there? The ones I know in California are coming home.

This is the NY Times article about rural Mississippi schools
www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/magazine/rural-public-education.html

You just wouldn't get this in the UK, the schools in the most deprived areas get the most funding.

In the US, it almost seems to compound disadvantage