Debating between these two countries. Which is better to bring children up in?

[Mixedfeelings89]

England or America. I am from England, Husband is American. We are not rich, nor poor therefore we would be living a average lifestyle. My only concern is which country will be better for the children? If we didn't have children I wouldn't really care which country either way. I just want the best for the children. Children are not yet school age, if that makes a difference.

Thanks in advance.

Don't be fucking absurd. No one on this thread has suggested that the American tourist's reputation was more important than access to abortion or the appalling state of gun violence in the USA. I simply responded to a poster who didn't seem to realise that the British sense of cultural superiority over the US does not necessarily extend beyond the UK's borders.

I’m sorry you have to make this choice Krispy.

I am hopeful that as a result of this Supreme Court ruling we will get the proper federal laws in place to protect pregnant women. I am sure it will be a fight, and won’t happen over night.

I also feel hopeful about the gun legislation on the works. That we can have common sense laws in place to prevent weapons of war falling into the wrong hands. Again, a fight that will take time.

I left the US many years ago for the UK due to the availability of universal health care. I have never regretted it. I have had two DCs & a variety of medical treatments over the yes and have had no complaints. Although a bit slow & bureaucratic, it is much simpler than the US, no Co-pays, no need to top up. You have an issue, contact GP & get the ball rolling, perhaps rather slowly, but you will be treated by excellent professionals & no one is checking your insurance status.
The cheerleaders from the US seem to have an “I’m alright, Jack” POV. Yes, you could land a good secure job with loads of benefits, live in an affluent neighbourhood in a blue state. But you are living in a country which is tremendously unequal, and with seemingly little interest in changing that. The best example is California, where the resistance to providing low cost housing (NIMBYS) has created a huge homeless situation. It is horrifying to see. Other issues, a minimum wage that hasn’t changed in decades, no real help for people bankrupted due to medical bills, a woefully inadequate safety net, etc.
It is a question of your sensibilities or morals, or what you can turn a blind eye to.
Some clearly are happy to enjoy the fruits of their wealth from that system & ignore others suffering, but I cannot.

@Moanranger I think that’s a bit unfair. I’m not turning a blind eye to our homeless situation but also not simplifying it into “no affordable housing.” Our homeless situation is primarily caused by the drug crisis and the mental health crisis.

I’m also not sure you moving far away from it is superior to how other Americans still living in the US manage.

unname no homelessness is mainly driven by cost of housing/lack of affordable housing. Interesting article in NYT recently re how Houston has significantly reduced homelessness by supplying a years subsidy to those who take up housing offer. The correlation is direct.

No @NumberTheory you’re fucking absurd, how wonderful that you get a lovely reception abroad. Like that’s your main concern at the moment. Shameful and shortsighted point scoring. Try focusing on what is actually important.

Exactly the ‘I’m alright Jack’ posts on here are quite frankly disgusting.

I don’t live in America, I’m not American and I’m horrified and disgusted by what is happening there. Why some on here who actually live there aren’t is baffling. Waffling on about free vaccinations and drunk brits abroad. Who cares about that when womens’ rights are being taken away. Oh and guns. And more guns. And kids being shot by guns. And gun crime being the leading cause of death for children in the US…

But apparently mentioning that means we’re hysterical. And they’ve never seen anyone with a gun therefore it doesn’t exist in their small world and doesn’t count.

I have family and a lot of friends in the US. My heart aches for all of them right now. It seems a terrifying place to live.

Uk without a doubt. USA is nuts, I would worry about my child being in school.

This is certainly a concern. If it came about it would change my mind about the US. But the UK could do this too. And there are strong anti-choice forces in the Conservative party.

Just a few months ago the Government moved to restrict women's access by repealing the availability of early at-home abortion. There weren't any good medical reasons for this, it was against the advice of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (and MN's campaign). Maggie Throup, the Minister in charge of abortion has an anti-choice voting record. It took a Lords amendment to a bill to force the Government to maintain access - even with a free vote, the vast majority of Conservative MPs were anti.

Because we actually live here and can put it in perspective.

None of us are happy about the gun violence. Probably the vast majority are not happy about the SCOTUS rulings. But we live here and see that the impact is different in different places and know that there is a lot more to life here than those two things.

There's plenty to dislike about the political landscape in the UK too. The slide towards authoritarianism which seems to have fewer counters than in the US. Having got rid of Trump in the US the falsification and contempt that comes from the head of the Government in the UK isn't exactly something I'd want to run towards. But most especially the dire state of the economy and the fuck up over NI thanks to Brexit.

England.

And the education system is crap.
What 'education system' are you referring to, @Delatron?

Kids are often years behind.
Years behind what? Whom?
You are aware that at least one third of British school leavers are functionally illiterate, right? Remind me again of the meaning of the term 'sink school'?

You are aware of the almost complete lack of social mobility in the UK?

The vast difference between life in the comfortable south east and the blighted north? It's so enormous that it was recently announced that 'leveling up' is going to cost billions more than the government anticipated, so comprehensive and deep seated and apparently completely unimaginable is the inequity.

Yes @NumberTheory I’ve already said I’m not happy with Brexit or the government but neither of those issues come close to children getting shot at school and womens’ rights being eroded.

Nobody has said the U.K. is perfect but I could not live in a country where I didn’t know whether my child would make it home at the end of the day. That’s really the bottom line for many of us on here.

I couldn’t live in a country where being shot is the leading cause of death for children. Having a shit PM doesn’t really compare..

I think it depends really- personally I'd choose England only as I enjoy travelling around Europe and its a lot easier and cheaper to do so from here, and as we aren't particularly wealthy the NHS and employment laws are something I value. That said, many jobs do pay much better in the states, and if you could afford healthcare insurance etc then you can get more in terms of housing etc for your $$$s. Depending which state as well you can find a place that really suits your family ie like hiking, the beach, whatever other hobbies they'll be a place for you whether England is of course much much smaller and less variety. Of course its terrifying to see about school shootings etc and although any are heartbreaking, the chances are still low of being involved as its such a huge country.

@mathanxiety ‘the blighted North’ 🤣. Bloody hell it’s like we’ve gone back in time. I grew up in the North and went to a lovely comprehensive. Of course some schools are shit but on the whole standards of education are higher.

Look, it’s well known that US education is years behind the U.K. I’ve seen it with my own eyes comparing what my friend’s daughter was covering in YR6 versus what we were doing over here. Friends had to move back to the U.K. and it took a while for their children to catch up. Likewise, another friend moved over to the US and their child was a couple of years ahead.

Everyone knows this (apart from you seemingly) people do not move their children to the US to get a better education than here.

England. I live in the North and whilst the weather and outdoor lifestyle of Florida should be amazing, the guns and backwards thinking would be a definite no for me going there for long periods. I have friends who lives in the US but moved here to raise children due to universal healthcare, better education, cheaper universities and more time off so they can actually visit their family in the states more.

@Delatron - do you not worry about your children's safety at all in the UK?

Are you desensitized to the number of children killed and seriously injured in road accidents every year? You wave them off to walk to school every day without any concerns about their safety?

Let them out in the evening with friends and there are no concerns?

The deaths and catastrrophic birth injuries to babies through medical negligence in several NHS trusts don't faze you?

The numerous cases of boneheaded stupidity by social workers don't make you shudder and wonder when the next starved/battered/tortured dead child will make the news? You're no doubt regularly picketing your local MP's office and campaigning for funding for your local social services.

And SEN funding while they're at it.

Are you out every day campaigning for an end to honor killing of women, girls sent abroad for FGM, and forced marriage of British citizens?

@mathanxiety so you don’t have road accidents in the US?

The biggest danger to my child currently would be crossing the road to school. I’d quite like to not add ‘getting shot at school’ on to that. That’s all there is to say really. It’s a no brainier.

Nobody is saying the U.K is perfect but on those serious issues: guns and the recent abortion rulings it kind of comes out better. That’s what is important to me. It may be less important to others.

I have a SEN child yes the funding is awful.
Still doesn’t make the US a better place to live.

As we've pointed out, these risks aren't the same across the country. Where you live makes a huge difference in the US because it is bigger and far more diverse than the UK. There are places in the US I wouldn't live. But there are a lot of places I'm more than happy to live. There have been no school killings (guns or knives) in my city, it's probably safer on the streets for teens than the bit of London I lived in before I moved back here. And I have better legal access to abortion than I would in the UK.

Which city are you in?

guns are an issue across the entire country

Because none of those other things happen in the States.
Suuuuuuure.

I'm West coast. Guns are an issue across the country, and they are an issue in my city, but there's more to school shootings than that. More kids in my city die each year surfing in the ocean than at school.