Is our marriage over? Please read

[moppyD]

I left him last year due to him desperately needing help for issues of his past. We're talking really horrific things here. I couldn't deal with how he was anymore and I left.

I knew he wouldn't deal with it well and as suspected, he had a mental breakdown. He lost 2.5 stone in a matter of weeks. It was horrible to see but i had to let him hit rock bottom.

We separated for around 7 months, unfortunately around middle of this time, he had a fling with another woman. I was devastated but I had left him and although he was still desperately trying to fight for his marriage, I made it pretty clear we were over and he just pushed me away even further.

What hurt me the most was he put a picture of himself and OW on Facebook for my family and friends to see. Some of them had no idea we had separated and I got a lot of messages asking if I was ok, who was she, what had happened etc.

Fast forward to now, he's been in therapy for months, it's going really well, I can see a different side to him, he's dealing with issues from his past and I'm proud of him for this. We are not loving together but have spent the last few months trying to re build and see how it goes.

We have been doing a lot of talking, communicating really well I thought. However last night I told him about these messages I received off my family and friends regarding the picture on social media. I told him how one on my friends told me to 'get on tinder' basically as payback - to give him an idea of the pain I was feeling. I didn't do this, I didn't want to do this. It was just a throw away comment.

My husband has not reacted well to this at all. He demanded to know which of my friends had said this, he was really upset. He said no one knows his side of the story and how unwell he was. He really wasn't happy about this comment at all and it surprised me how bad he reacted.

He was absolutely in an awful place but he did choose to sleep with someone else, he did choose to put it on social media for everyone to see. It was never going to go down well with my family/friends! Of course it wasn't. They knew how absolutely broken I was also.

I feel he is over reacting to this. I don't know why he's being like this? Thoughts?

And while he treated me appallingly, i did leave and I did push him away

Can't you see that you leaving and pushing him away adds to the unhealthiness of the relationship, rather than mitigating his behaviour?

The thing is a mess. Neither of you has made the other happy in the past, and now he seems to have changed but has got you on the back foot again, indicating that he hasn't changed enough.

You don't have to waste your life like this. You seem determined to defend him, but he's treated you like shit, he's lied, he's fucked someone else 2 minutes after you broke up.

'Ah, we're finally getting somewhere' is what abusers want their victims to think. It keeps them on the hook. The victim is permanently hankering after the 'nice' version of their partner, and is occasionally allowed to see a glimpse, so they stick around. You're in a textbook abuse scenario, OP.

OP, you love him and want to help him get well. But you need to accept that you probably won't succeed. Or you might for a while, and then he will get ill again and the cycle continue.
He has complex emotional and mental health needs, and getting professional help is not the magic bullet people seem to think. Often at best, all it does is get people to a minimum level where they are functional. Few people end up 'cured' living uncomplicated lives.
Obviously it's not his fault and like everyone else he is entitled to love. But the person who loves and shares a life with him will likely make huge sacrifices and have a very rough ride.
Think hard, whether you want that to be you.
You're at a point where separation is still on the cards. It will be harder to leave further down the line.

It's over, plain and simple. First he cheated on you (I don't care if you were on a break, you were married). Now he's acting like a controlling idiot by demanding answers to things you've said. No-one deserves to be treated like that. I had a breakdown when married as well...doesn't mean that I get to cheat on people and act like a tw*t

It sounds like he’s ashamed of his behaviour but in all honesty, he didn’t do anything wrong. You told him it was over, you told him to move on without you. He did. You then didn’t communicate this to people so your friends and family were outraged for you.

You’ve asked him to get help for his problems, which he has, and he is in a fragile place mentally. You are upset that he slept with someone else and telling him that your friends and family are angry with him is a way for you to punish him. It is shaming for him to hear this. You’ve done it in a passive aggressive way but that is no less aggressive. That’s why he’s responded the way he has. It’s landed how you (maybe unconsciously) intended.

You cannot stay with him and punish him for a situation you set up. You need to decide whether you can move on from this. His behaviour mid breakdown and when you were very much separated is an issue for the two of you, noone else. It shouldn’t be held against him. He is in a fragile mental state, it will be very hard for him to change the patterns of a lifetime, it takes a lot longer than a few months.

@moppyD We're separated over 4 years now and it's taken me that long to finally accept it's over. However I always knew we were better off without each other but it's been a slog to try and accept the fact my marriage is over. We do live together (for various reasons) which has probably slowed down my healing but I eventually got there! I do wish you well as it's very hard to accept that things did not turn out the way you hoped xx

The relationship is over. Be happy that he is getting better but move on with your life, you don’t sound good for each other and it sounds like your experiences together has left a lot of bad blood. Both of you should move on.

He's a selfish arse.

Stop pandering to him.
Stop treating him like a child who needent face up to resonsibility or accountability.

He's an adult, stop infantalising him and maybe he will grow up.

You broke up beacuse he was a git, he responded by not stepping up, but sleeping with someone else, not mature behaviour.

Really you could do better, you're too intellegent for this whining baby.

Agree with most people. He’ll get away with whatever you allow him to get away with. You sound too good for him. Get rid, work on yourself and live your life.
I can’t get over the amount of ‘suicidal’ crying men who need their ex partners to come and look after them because they’re so incapable of doing anything, yet the second that woman’s back is turned, he’s got another woman lined up on the go. He’ll be fine, just go and be you.

I don’t get what all the analysing and angst is for? What’s the point?

You don’t live together, don’t have a kid, and can continue to shag and go to the cinema as you already are.

Thank you, I think in my case it is a trauma bond of some sort. I've made a mistake by letting him get close to me again but equally I know that his 'changes' are not enough to save our marriage. It really is very hard - must be hard for you all to live together. Much appreciate your reply, thank you xx

I'm an optimist and it sounds to me like he's really dealing with his stuff...however, his journey isn't over yet and his reaction to the comment is evidence of that. You could suggest this is something he addresses in his next therapy appointment to try to get to the bottom of why it bothered him so much.

So many on MN are quick to say 'leave him' but I think it sounds far like he's really trying to get his stuff together. Approach with a lot of caution but I wouldn't necessarily think it's over. Watch his next moves carefully.

@moppyD I was the same for years after we separated. Always wondering "what if, we're getting on well, maybe it could work" etc. Around and around I would go in my head. As a very good friend of mine once remarked to me "how long more are you going to wait for him to be the person you need him to be?"

But you know what, I don't think I ever actually saw him for the person he was, and that was my failing. I kept expecting him to be someone I wanted him to be and needed him to be and didn't see what was in front of my eyes. Obviously there was a lot more to it than that but that was a huge realisation on my part and I think when I reached that point I really began to heal xx

I think this is where I've gone wrong. The promises of change and to see some of them actually happening is great but that doesn't mean he's going to change into this image I have in my head and I think that's what I'm beginning to realise now.

But even though it's going to be hard to lose him again, at least I know now that it still isn't enough. There is no 'what ifs' so I'm trying not to be too hard on myself.

I wish therapy cured toxic people but there isn't evidence to show that's the case. Dr Ramani (specialist in narcissism) describes it as an elastic band...the behaviour will always snap back to orginial position.

If you are a highly empathic person then you will struggle to move on...because that's just your nature. However a narcisstic individual is now thought to be caused by abuse and genetics so it's highly unlikely he can change.

There is no 'what ifs' so I'm trying not to be too hard on myself

What earthly reason could you have to be hard on yourself at all?

The fact that I tried again. I shouldn't have

Which of your parents (or other close adult) exhibited behaviours you had to overlook, OP?

That'll be where this stems from. It's an old behaviour pattern, to forgive, and move on, pretend it never happened, act like it's ok, etc.

It's all my dad. I've learnt this in therapy. The way my dad treated my mum was awful, abusive, walking on egg shells Always working and work came first. He ended up having an affair with a women 20 years younger than him and then my mum and dad divorced. That was when I was in my mid twenties and both my mother and father dragged me into their spilt massively. I was a following in my mother's footsteps without realising.

Not close to aunts/uncles. My dad has a strained relationship with them. I loved my grandparents on my mums side massively but my dad couldn't stand them - no surprise. I've recently realised I loved my grandparents so much as they were the only ones who showed a real interest in my life. They were affectionate also. They wanted to know about me. My parents never did.

I've detached from my dad, I will still have him in my life but I have realised I must stop pleasing him, trying to get him to love me etc. My dad never liked my husband (shock horror) though they are very similar.

My dad however will never ever admit he has issues where has my husband has and I thought that was something to be commended.

I'm going through all this in therapy and it has hit me hard, I didn't realise what a crap childhood I had.

When all that was happening, you were still of an age where you were being parented. You were still looking to your parents for guidance and support.

But now, you are old enough to be your own parent, and the young you is still inside, waiting to be heard. Making quite loud noises, perhaps, waiting to be heard. 'Can anybody hear me?? It's horrible in here, I need to get out!!' type noises.

Can you hear her? In this relationship, right now, can you hear her?

op I am not sure honestly why the both of you are trying again. This thing is as dead as a big dead thing. Seriously do each other a favour and end this misery.

Oh good god, he sounds like hard work. I couldn’t be bothered with someone this high maintenance who is going to fly off the handle for no reason.

It all sounds very unhealthy to me. I had a break down years ago and was awful to my husband as I was ill, he stood by me and supported me through it. If he had left me there would have been no going back for me.

it also seems very odd that after 7 months of separation your best friend was outraged he’d started to move on. You left him, he had every right to do that. it seems very odd that you’ve brought it up now how she reacted and seems like you did it to get this reaction otherwise why mention it.

As I said it just doesn’t sound like a healthy relationship so yes I think it is over and you should both move on.

Read the post - it wasn't after 7 months, it was in the middle. Around 3.5 months as I said in my original post

I think in my case it is a trauma bond of some sort.
I don't think you have a trauma bond as such; I think you and your ex are a 'match' because you are both stuck in the Karpman Drama Triangle.
Ask your counsellor about it or Google it. The only way to exit the triangle is to leave, then learn about it so you don't repeat the same behaviour patterns in the future.
Stop poking your ex and reduce contact. His reaction shows that his therapy has only scratched the surface of his problems, which if he was only 3 months in is what you'd expect.

And for future reference, never repeat what your friends said to you after a row or a split.

Read the post - it wasn't after 7 months, it was in the middle. Around 3.5 months as I said in my original post

The length of time is irrelevant really. You left him, he was then entitled to do whatever he wants with whoever he wants and it is very strange that your friend was outraged if she knew that you’d separated. I honestly can’t think of a reason to have told him other than to upset him. It might have made him feel like he was being painted a bad guy when he was an unwell man trying to get better whose wife had left him and so he was trying to move on.