Archie Battersbee case

[whynotwhatknot]

I was just wondering why we're not allowed to post about this case-the deletion message mentioned it was ongoing so wouldnt be fair to the family

Charlie gards case was on going and there was numerous threads about it

Anyway if this stands maybe we can discuss

True, though, isn't it? A dead person feels no pain, hunger, or lemons on their feet.

It’s sickening that, as a mother, she would rather have her child rot before her very eyes than give him the dignity he deserves and just switch off the machine. As a mum, it hurts my heart that she has to say goodbye to her boy, but not as much as seeing his little withered body paraded on social media

Someone else made a comment in there about it being accepted he is gone...and been also deleted which is silly cause its on the court video so evidence is there!

The army page seems to think that anything not in their narrative is "trolling" therefore delete anything they feel contradicts that. Absolutely shocking, you get chucked off if you dare question what Hollie has told the group.

There are SO many odd parts to this story. Ella Carter being a massive one!

Failure to give proper weight to Archie's previously expressed wishes and religious beliefs, and the family's wishes and views

This has come up with every appeal and, I think, speaks to the Christian Legal Group’s wider agenda of a beating heart = a living soul. Thus far, the British courts are having none of it.

I wonder if the Christian Legal Centre feel like this case has been “of value” to them?

In fairness, it does say in the judgment that he is in a coma.

Point 6 (on page 4)

Archie suffered catastrophic hypoxic ischaemic brain injury. He has no prospect of recovery. The compelling and unanimous medical evidence is that he has not regained awareness at any time and has now been in a coma, with a Glasgow score of 3/15 (i.e., the lowest) for over 3 months.

It's quite telling that there doesn't seem to be independent evidence of Archie's views on religion. You would think that he might have mentioned them to his mates in the club, or that his teacher could have given a statement about his interest in RE and his response to prayers in assemblies etc.

She's gone very quiet since questions started being raised about her

'Ur little darling boy he needs to fly as seen & said re court u all no he's not going to recover, my heart breaks for the family sincerely, having read all court transcripts an watched all I'm so glad legal team are pro bono bless them, all I can say I wish the family all the best, bless Little Archie x'

A comment from a supporter on the AA page - let's see how long it lasts before it's deleted and she's booted

How long has Ella Carter been the family spokesperson? It seems quite recent. Is she connected with the Christian legal centre?

Oh, just found the fundraiser. Archie's sister in law raising money for future costs of rehab...

I have reported my concerns to GoFundMe, as it is unclear what legal and medical costs have been incurred so far, and there is a significant question about future costs given the 2 court rulings so far

Jesus Christ could you be any more judgemental?

There are no winners here - not Archie, not his mum, not the medical staff or the legal figures. It’s very sad all round. I don’t judge her for wanting to keep her child alive, I don’t judge the medical staff for trying to let him go. Zero judgement from me I just hope whatever happens next, happens with dignity.

it is unclear what legal and medical costs have been incurred so far, and there is a significant question about future costs given the 2 court rulings so far

As to future costs, if the CLC wish to waste their money that's their affair, but I thought all work had been pro bono up to now?

I expect medical costs have all come from the NHS so far; however the funding page also mentioned equipment, rehab and so on, with the inference that much would be needed when he comes home - though what benefit there'd be in taking a dead person home I really couldn't say

Well, quite. They have lost the case and the first appeal.

The bases of this application to appeal seem unrealistic given how comprehensive the appeal judgement was. Of course, in these cases it is important that there is every opportunity for legal challenge. But has there ever been a case where there is a different ultimate outcome? I am thinking of Charlie Gard, Alfie Evans and Alta Fixsler. Which did include (with Alta Fixsler) long established religious beliefs of the parents

When you say “keep her child alive”, what do you mean by “alive”?

We know that Archie’s brain is rotting and parts of it have fallen off and are located in his lumbar spine. Brain wave studies have shown no brain response.

Every function of his body is dependant on the treatment he is getting. He can’t make hormones normally produced by his pituitary gland. He can’t maintain his fluid balance, body salts, temperature. He hasn’t moved, not even spinal reflexes and has fixed, dilated pupils. Hollie insists on the hand grip, no one else can reproduce this.

He isn’t sedated yet hasn’t fought the ventilator, breathed against it or gagged with the tube or with suctioning. He is in a nappy and pictures of this have been posted on the internet.

A ventilator is forcing air into his lungs which maintains his beating heart, but that’s all. Heats beat without functioning brains, they’ll beat on a surgical tray before a transplant, myocardial cells will beat on a Petri dish.

There is no “life” in Archie, Hollie is fighting to ventilate a corpse. This goes against every ritual, every cultural norm we have about death.

Updated: she's gone!

Archie is not alive. If you read through the court transcripts, you will see that he is pretty much a corpse that is being ventilated. Not just ventilated, but having 2 nurses look our for him at times, pumping all manner of drugs into him, blood transfusions (when the blood service is crying out for donors)
His mum keeps chopping and changing her story all the time.

Jesus Christ could you be any more judgemental?

Also, compared to some of the sites discussing this, Mumsnet is relatively subdued and overall very respectful of Hollie’s difficult situation.

I’m not being judgemental - I’m stating the facts that hundreds of others here have said. The poor boy has “died” and yet his family / army are still fighting and fighting for him. What quality of life will he have if he was to just lay there, day in, day out with a machine doing all the work for
him? You sit on the fence if you want - what good will that do? I would hope against hope that he came out of this with better odds but it’s not a dream world. The medics and the recent judgement have put every single detail forward of the situation. Don’t judge me for being a realist.

I know he isn’t alive.

Have some respect, if you think you would be so much more pragmatic and accepting about switching off your 12 year old’s life support then you’re deluding yourself.

this thread is so unkind.

I don't think he was in school for a couple of years due to his challenging behaviour?

The thread is realistic not unkind.

this boy has no chance of surviving because his already gone. His body deserves to be put to rest.

other children with a chance also deserve to be able to use that bed for a chance at their lives rather than it being used to keep someone who’s already died heart beating to really appease a Christian group that’s got their mitts on an easy target… a grieving mother.

I think I would be more realistic than a lot of people who say poor Archie can live like this / come out of this. I wouldn’t wish that life on my worst enemy. We aren’t being unkind. We are saying that Hollie will soon have to come to terms with the fact that her precious boy is not long “there” and continuing to fight for him to have this treatment is both unfair to Archie and those treating him, as it is a huge waste of resources for other children / adults who so desperately need them.