Archie Battersbee case

[whynotwhatknot]

I was just wondering why we're not allowed to post about this case-the deletion message mentioned it was ongoing so wouldnt be fair to the family

Charlie gards case was on going and there was numerous threads about it

Anyway if this stands maybe we can discuss

I dont think it matters how many doctors tell her. There will always be a reason why they are wrong. unless the doctor tells her what she wants to hear.
I,m glad the court was public, because at least then people know the real version of events if they choose to read the transcripts and judgements. Because I feel really sorry for the nursing and medical staff on that unit. I worked on a picu during a similar case and not having the ability to refute the outrageous claims made against you was so frustrating and stressful.

I,m glad the court was public, because at least then people know the real version of events if they choose to read the transcripts and judgements

Unless part of the army and believe its all faked and corrupt...I dont see what there would to gain from doing it..its bizzare but I guess if there's posts from the parent saying it then they're hanging onto their every word. Someone needs to take care of her. The right people and help come to terms. Rather then feed false hope upon hope

I’m pretty sure the high court judgment outlined how a number of opinions were obtained, with doctors from other hospitals

It is such a tragic case, with only one possible outcome, no matter how much his family are trying to avoid confronting that truth.

Situations like this seem to be so very difficult to manage - how to balance the need for the family to have time to come to terms with what is happening and the best interests of the child, along with the wider issues for society about what is death and how dead people are treated, makes it all so very complex.

My real concern is that, each new case that generates an 'Army' rallying against the medical reality takes society further along a road in which raw grief combines with an audiences ignorance to promote calls for these complex areas to be decided by anything other than the patients best interests. I also think that, the more such cases there is, there more there is likely to be - so that those parents who, in their grief, need to believe they have tried everything believe that they have to rail against the medics just like that 'Army' did. It's really worrying and very, very sad for anyone who gets caught in that place.

I also think that, the more such cases there is, there more there is likely to be - so that those parents who, in their grief, need to believe they have tried everything believe that they have to rail against the medics just like that 'Army' did

I think this situation will remain fairly uncommon in that it requires a parent not only refusing to accept the medical advice, but also refusing to accept what they can see.

Archie hasn’t moved or responded or tried to breathe for 3 months. Hollie posted that video of him “looking” at a teddy which just showed fixed, dilated pupils and an abnormally filmy cornea. Dead eyes.

A lot more parents may feel emboldened by various “armies” to seek out international opinions, seek for more time, push for obscure, untested treatments.

But most people can recognise what death looks like and wouldn’t push to ventilate a corpse. There’s an extra layer of parental denial here, I think it’s a reaction to how he was found, maybe a complicated guilt response. I am not suggesting she was at fault, but it would be heartbreaking to know that your child was unsupervised for a short period and then managed to hang themselves. Part of being a mother is feeling misplaced guilt

While a lot of people can relate because they also think they might react with disbelief/denial very very few parents would be able to continue to project life onto a corpse for over 3 months.

I see Hollie has posted this morning that she's unhappy that Archie has been given movicol because he is now passing stools 20 times a day - sounds like he has an impaction and a few people have pointed this out. Hollie however has said she thinks the hospital are trying to force him to lose weight and there are people on the group agreeing with her someone said 'they're up to something' yes they're trying desperately to control the digestive function because his brain is no longer doing it.

how sad that she still thinks theyre out to harm him so to speak

I agree about the misplaced guilt thing. My son tried to kill himself when he was the same age during the lockdown last year. I was trying to sort out my other son who was having a meltdown about not wanting to do his schoolwork. I was just grateful my 12 year old seemed to be just getting on with his work on the computer. I didn't realise he was upset by an email and I didn't notice him climb on a chair and raid the medicine cabinet (which at the time was out of climbing reach of little ones but not the 5ft 4in 12 year old). When he threw up and said he had a headache, I thought he had a migraine. I still wish sometimes that I'd said "sorry, I can't do this" to the primary school teachers who were asking for work to be done like so many other parents did and maybe I would have noticed what my 12 year old was doing.

Sorry, should have added that my 12 year old survived his suicide attempt and after 24 very scary hours in resus and then HDU he was assessed by camhs and allowed home. He is now 14 and is very excited about competing in sports day today.

I agree about the misplaced guilt thing. My son tried to kill himself when he was the same age during the lockdown last year

That’s awful, I hope he’s doing ok now. And of course you shouldn’t need to watch a 12 year old’s every move.

Cross post! I’m pleased he’s ok.

Wow. a poster has replied to a comment someone made about how the hospital are trying to make him suffer and need to show the lawyers all this.
Their comment basically says that sometimes things need tweaking and not to slate the hospital because they're not trying to harm him..it has likes!

There's lots of activity on the group today especially from Hollie, I think you can tell tensions are running high ahead of the judgement tomorrow. In spite of everything I really feel for her - she knows they're near the end of the road. After fighting for so long and then having to say goodbye she's going to need a lot of emotional support and I'm not sure she's going to get it.

Despite it all, I have sympathy for Hollie.

Every now and then we have posts from mothers who know their baby is going to die, sometimes the baby is in their 40s, sometimes in their teens, sometimes unborn.

Their anguish is palpable and I am so glad that MN exists so these women can wail and be held by strangers in the net, and I sincerely hope I never need that support.

I think the army/family are toxic, that what is being done to Archie is inhumane, and the legislation needs to be examined so that other poorly children are not denied an ICU bed because a dead child is using our limited resources for months on end - but, I still have sympathy for a mother who is facing a future with empty arms.

Poor Archie, what a hole he is going to leave for those who love him.

There is also a post from someone insisting that they can just put him in a wheelchair and wheel him around the hospital.

Saying that nothing can stop them doing it as they can take his machines with them.

What the fuck????!!!!!!

There's no arguing with stupid.

They need a villain, so they've created a redemptive fantasy in which the hospital is trying to kill him and the "little fighter" going to wake up and set them all to rights for the wrongs they've inflicted on him and his mum, before returning to professional gymnastics.

In reality he stopped fighting weeks ago and the only reason there's still a battle is because trained people are being forced to go against all of their training and instincts and treat a dead body as if it's a living patient. All the while being filmed, questioned, scrutinised and accused of attempted murder in the press and online.

People need to be protected from people like Hollie and her Army, not from people like the medical professionals.

I saw that! Why would you even want to wheel him around the hospital

I think from another post. The view is if he passes away on the ventilatior then it's God's will. However if they stop it and take him off then their killing him..someone else posted it and mum agreed with. Which was clear from the last court judgement though seemed a lot of backtracking between then as in that report they accepted he was gone.

I can this descending into the madness similar to the Alfie Evans case where crowds of people were screaming and trying to storm the hospital.
Hollie is just whipping up her army into a frenzy now.
Also saw that several people are getting tattoos of Archie's name. I thought having a profile picture of someone else's child was bad enough.
I really hope that when a date and time is given for support to be removed, that Hollie has the grace to keep it private and not turn it into more of a media circus than it already is.

Yeah I think this weekend could be problematic after the judgment is handed down tomorrow morning. Although it seems Archie had a bad night last night and given that the dr reminded Hollie about the DNR, he does seem to be deteriorating. It would be best for all involved if he slipped peacefully away.

It's going to be very problematic this weekend

When it reaches the point that doctors are turning off his life support, it is going to be a very difficult situation in that room. I don’t think Hollie and her family are going to sit there calmly whilst it’s being done. I really do feel for the hospital staff.

If the judgement is to withdraw life support, does anyone know if there's some type of timescale for these things? Or is it left to the hospital to negotiate with the family in the hope that reason will finally prevail?