To feel sad/annoyed by the lack of dads on the class Whatsapp group

[fremsley]

My daughter is starting reception in September and a Whatsapp group chat for her class had already been created. The membership consists entirely of mums, with the exception of my husband and (as far as I can tell) one other dad. Certainly the only active contributors are mums. My husband wants to be involved as he is very hands-on, but we both feel awkward about the lack of dads. The current nursery group chat is the same. I must admit, I find myself feeling irritated, disappointed and quite sad that things are this way in 2022. Seems to be a lot pressure on mums to manage this side of things. It feels uncomfortable to me. AIBU? What is your view of dads in these groups?

Also, I would be interested to hear others' experiences of class Whatsapp groups in general: do you think 'no dads' is the norm? If you are in one, are there any dads in yours? What kind of area do you live in (e.g. city/small town/rural)? Asking that last question because this is a small village school and I am very curious to know whether schools in more rural locations are more 'traditional' in comparison to cities. A friend who lives in a city known for its liberalness told me there are dads in her class group chat.

Yes, I am very aware of the irony that I am posting this on a website called MUMSnet!

I think the title of stay at home mum, when the children are at school makes no sense. What does that even mean?

The only one I know of isn't busy having coffee with friends or doing sport, she's antisocial disturbing the neighbours, including those wfh, with her awful loud music, tv shows watched outside and speakerphone calls. She hangs out a bit of washing, but so do the rest of us.

Ah ok, DontBlameMe I get it now, you’re just trying to start a fight. Off you trot.

There last few pages, I feel like I'm back in the 1920s.

Should these men that shouldn't be SAHD and only fit for going to work, beat their chests, like cavemen whilst their at it.

What absolute nonsense.

Yes that’s what I was referring to, when there is no sensible argument left to be made, a personal attack emerges. Who are you to dismiss my point of view?

I know men do not contribute by sitting on their arses at home all day. Why is this apparently hard to understand? They are designed to provide for goodness sake. - Hold them to account, don’t make excuses for them.

You aren't answering any questions though. A MAN or WOMAN sitting at home all day isn't contributing. Why do you think this is acceptable behaviour form women but not men?
Society decided that men should act as providers - society changes.

I absolutely do hold men to account and that includes being an active parent to their children. I don't subscribe to the outdated stereotypes with regards gender roles in society.

Try searching for the term “cocklodger” and you’ll see what most on this site really think.

The level of argument on here really is poor. Throwing insults is not needed.
It's not really an insult though is it?

MN isn't representative of RL in many things.

However you are just looking for an arguement.

Try searching for the term “cocklodger” and you’ll see what most on this site really think.
SAHD and cocklodger aren't interchangeable terms.

Try searching for the term “cocklodger” and you’ll see what most on this site really think.

Please, please, find me a thread where a man who is doing all the school runs, cooking all the meals, doing all the laundry, doing all the general admin, cleaning, gardening, helping the kids with homework, hosting play dates, taking kids to activities, etc etc, so that his wife can work without having to worry about rushing out to get the kids from after school care or whatever it is, is described as a cocklodger. Please.

Well at least you are engaging with the issues unlike the other pearl clutchers on here.

The answer is that we have different views on the roles of men and women. You think they should be the same, I don’t. That it really. You’re entitled to your view.

I’m happy to debate, but when you start saying things like “I’m not short of self belief, I recommend it” and “men are designed to provide” you just sound like a stirrer.

Cocklodger is a term used for men who don’t contribute in any way - not financially and also not domestically. SAHDs are not in that category assuming they are doing (at the very least) childcare pre and post school and in the holidays.

That’s exactly what they get called after the kids are at school. SAHM are pretty comprehensively looked down on here as well at that stage.

On finding the threads, I must have missed the part where I applied for the research Assisant job you were advertising.

I'm so glad WhatsApp groups weren't around when my kids were small.

There was a class Facebook group but a parent starred a witch hunt about a TA on it and someone showed it to the head, who produced it in a meeting. Awkward.

I have left every single WhatsApp group I've ever been added to btw.

People say mute them but I hate the fact that I can still see the red dot or see the people conversation piling up when I open WhatsApp.

I would not be joining a class what's app group that sounds hideous

The answer is that we have different views on the roles of men and women. You think they should be the same, I don’t. That it really. You’re entitled to your view.

I actually research this for a living, specifically issues around career development. You talk about holding men to account and women being disadvantaged but don't seem to acknowledge that views like your actually harm to women's equality .

The groups drive me absolutely insane, they are not useful. Lots of crazy mums posting about every single tiny detail as if it's the most important thing in the world, and spreading random rumours. My DH is the main carer, but he would never go anywhere near the groups. I've left most of them, drove me nuts. Long diatribe about Covid (not information, just her random opinion on the govt) was the final straw. Life's too short.

You make the classic mistake.

I don’t believe in equality as it is now understood I.e. the same. We are different and we need to play to our strengths. The men and women are the same trope is what damages women, not my point of view.

You make the classic mistake.

Not a mistake. Just years and years of research.

I don’t believe in equality as it is now understood I.e. the same. We are different and we need to play to our strengths. The men and women are the same trope is what damages women, not my point of view.

Do you have any evidence for this?

Yes it’s obvious.

The easiest to understand is that we are now expected to match and compete with men in our careers (you wanted equality, love, being men’s view).

But we get dumped with the bulk of domestic work either by biology (which ain’t going to change), or unfairness (which tends not to change either).

This is not some fringe view on here.

The easiest to understand is that we are now expected to match and compete with men in our careers (you wanted equality, love, being men’s view).

I don't see any reason why women can't match men with regards our careers. What prevents this leads on to your next point.

But we get dumped with the bulk of domestic work either by biology (which ain’t going to change), or unfairness (which tends not to change either).

While we can't change biology we do have policies in place to protect women from being discriminated against due to their biology. While I accept that these aren't perfect and always and adhered to, we at least do have these policies.
The unfairness aspect is what is specifically impacted by your type of views.
The language you use when referring to SAHDs is so derogatory, you clearly don't feel that men should have a caring role within the family. If men aren't expected to undertake significant caring responsibilities then how you you suggest we address the fairness aspect?

That post should be a memorial to hope over reality.

That post should be a memorial to hope over reality.

So what do we do? Carry on viewing women as carers and men as providers despite knowing that that broadly a societal construct? and a construct that actually disadvantages women?

You’re just being deliberately perverse now so I won’t engage further. Read the guidelines here, good faith is expected.