To be relieved the world is starting to see some sense?

[portugalq]

Fina bars transgender swimmers from women's elite events if they went through male puberty www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/61853450

@ReneBumsWombats becsuse that know belongs to a poor vulnerable oppressed TW who deserves all our respect and kindness apparently. 🙄

So If a TRA calls one woman a ‘disgusting TERF’ they’re showing misogyny to all women. Good to know. And what exactly are you doing about it? You’re here tone policing us, why not them. You say you are an ardent feminist, how exactly are you combating thus erosion of women’s rights?

Too late in what sense? If I’d been twee earlier would that have brought about more sensible responses?

I’ve really tried to engage the best that I can with a flood of mostly very bizarre replies!

I do not give a shit about being respectful about the kind of person that gets their engorged knob out in a female changing room when they know for a fact it's upsetting the actual females. There are words for that kind of person that I would get delete for using.

Then I suggest you lead by example and refrain from using the word "cis", which I find deeply disrespectful.

No unwanted and exposed penises belonging to cis OR trans people.

Respectful language regarding all groups of people.

Yes, please. Many or most of us regard the word cis as disrespectful. Woman/female, or man/male is more than adequate.

an ‘ardent feminist’ using cis. Must be the intersectional type of feminist. No ardent feminist would ever use that demeaning and offensive word. Coined by the same guy who was telling everyone pedophiles were not all bad people.

Lord. If I reply to a topic about socks I’ll talk about socks. If I reply to a topic about politics I’ll talk about politics. If the topic I happen to see has a transphobic tone, I’ll comment on it. I don’t understand why I need to prove my feminist credentials by finding some TRAs to ‘police’ instead. I’ve taken issue with how some of you speak about trans people - I stand by it!

Because talking about Lia is inextricably linked with talking about trans people.

No, talking about Lia for me, and I imagine many other women, is talking about biological men who are sports cheats.

Most of us don't have a problem with trans people who quietly get on with their lives without any special pleading.

I am absolutely an intersectional feminist!

It's just embarrassing now. StolenCookies clearly knows she's lost. Her posts are just meaningless platitudes and cringey one liners. It's just the online equivalent of a big cheesy grin and an awkward tap dance and hair smoothing.I'll just say this, StolenCookies. Once you're ready to tell us that you're reconsidering your demand that we are suitably ""respectful" when we discuss exposed knobs in women's changing rooms, we will actually respect you. Enormously. We know it's hard to break out of all the silencing techniques imposed on women regarding this issue. It's clear you haven't got a leg to stand on with this but when you've had a chance to let the dust of this ridiculous argument settle, do come back.

@StolenCookie then you can’t get upset when some people take issue with your language, tone and use of offensive and demeaning terms can you? If I see someone being a penis, I will tell them they are going a penis. And you are definitely being a penis.

Really? I honestly didn’t know that some people find cis disrespectful. Why?

Called it!! So not a feminist then. If you believe the rights of males trump the safety, dignity and comfort of females, you’re not a feminist babe, you’re a handmaiden.

Really? I honestly didn’t know that some people find cis disrespectful. Why?

Because it is wholly unnecessary. Man/Woman Male/Female Ladies/Gentlemen were all more than sufficient until transwomen agressively decided that they were more womanly than we biological women are, so came up with this stupid word.

It is surprising that an ardent feminist does not realise that.

I genuinely want to know: where have I used offensive and demeaning terms?

Also I don’t feel upset about people’s responses to me, personally. I’ve taken issue with people’s language around trans people. They’re separate things!

And sure, you can call me a penis! I find that a lot less questionable than most of the other things I’ve read here today!

Because we aren't cis women. We are women. And we are sick of the meaning being obfuscated and "redefined" until it doesn't mean anything and women's sports becomes shit male sports and women's changing rooms become places for knobs to hang out.

Words mean things. Stag is the word for an adult male deer. Doe is the word for an adult female deer. Man is the word for an adult male human. Woman is the word for an adult female humans. Dog does not mean teapot.

If someone's gender identity doesn't match their sex, we need simply add "trans" to make it clear who they are.

"Cis" dilutes the meaning of "woman". But more so, it assumes a "female" gender identity, which many of us on here don't have. So we don't want to be described as such.

Thank you in advance for using respectful language for us in future.

I hear myself loud and clear: let’s be respectful when talking about oppressed groups of people, even if a particular member of that community does something deplorable

one person on a quite long thread said something that may be considered vaguely disrespectful

the ‘knob’ comment was said about someone who did indeed get their ‘penis’ out, the quote referred to that one person and in no way shape or form could be considered to be referring to a group or community of people

which is why tha5 comments is still standing on the thread…not a negative generalisation in the slightest

Sorry you can't get your knob out in the women's changing room any more, Thomas, but you're lucky that that was actually considered your human right for even five minutes

… what?

Intersectional feminism means believing the rights of men trump women?

I am truly beyond lost!

Intersectional feminism means believing the rights of men trump women?

Apparently.

Hey, I’m all for being educated. If a group of people tell me they don’t want to be referred to be a certain term, I definitely won’t use it!

You used cis for a start. Compared saying Lia had a knob with racism. Told us off for using words you did not agree with. You say you are an intersectional feminist so here is a scenario. If a Muslim woman and a transwoman both wanted to go swimming but the Muslim woman could not as she could not share soade with a male, who’s right to the changing room would take precedence? Would you tell the Muslim woman she could not swim or tell the TW to change elsewhere? Lia used lias trans status to intimidate and harrass women. Why are you up in arms over language used and not that? Why are you as an ardent feminist outgoing Lias feelings over that of the women Lia upset

Hey, I’m all for being educated. If a group of people tell me they don’t want to be referred to be a certain term, I definitely won’t use it!

Thank you.

You objected to a certain subsection of biological men being called 'laddy' or their knobs being referred to.

Laddy for men is a bit patronising but it is not transphobic. Knob we have discussed already, a common slang word for a penis.

But you don't see the problem with this invented word cis?

But this is all going away from the purpose of the thread. A sporting body has finally begun to use some sense, which most of us applaud. Males who have gone through puberty do not belong in women's sport.

I’m genuinely so confused by this response I’ve googled it.

intersectional feminism:

a movement recognizing that barriers to gender equality vary according to other aspects of a woman's identity, including age, race, ethnicity, class, and religion, and striving to address a diverse spectrum of women's issues.

This is the definition I thought was true. But if someone on Mumsnet tells me it actually means ‘covert handmaiden who believes the rights of men trump women’ then… well I shall completely ignore it for the utter nonsense that it is 😂