To be relieved the world is starting to see some sense?

[portugalq]

Fina bars transgender swimmers from women's elite events if they went through male puberty www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/61853450

Calling a trans woman “laddy” and saying something to the effect of “put your knob away”

I didn't call Thomas "laddy".

I did say that Thomas got Thomas' knob out in the women's changing room. You claimed earlier not to be offended by this, which is just as well since it's pointless being offended by the truth. Why is it transphobic to make mention of the knob that was indeed got out and distressed the women forced to see it and undress before it?

I never said Lia deserves respect.

I really don’t understand this idea of earning respect. We’re human beings. Respect should be the default.

@ReneBumsWombats maybe if you’d said ‘put your ladyknob away’. @StolenCookie wouldn't be so offended

I never said you did. But someone in the thread did, and my initial post said “some of the language used here is dreadful”. I stand by that!

Why is it transphobic to acknowledge that Thomas' knob was exposed in a women's changing room?

But I think trans people deserve respect,

those we’re your words @StolenCookie lia is trans therefore according to you lia deserves respect. Or are you saying Lia is not trans?

You said trans people deserve respect, Lia is trans ergo part of that group you believe deserve respect.

It wasn’t just acknowledged. It’s the way that something is expressed. If a man says “some bint was harping on” then there’s a tone there isn’t there. Maybe she genuinely was being repetitive - that might be a fact - but to call her a bint (similar to calling a trans person “laddy”) and saying she was ‘harping on’ is similar in tone to saying a trans person got their “knob out”. It’s sexist. It’s transphobic. It’s all rather dreadful, and I think if I ruled the world it would be a better place 😊

And @StolenCookie you are continually arguing that what has been said about Lia and Lia's actions is transphobic and lacking in respect so it seems you do believe Lia deserves respect, I don't and won't give Lia any.

Still no clue on whether you find misogyny unacceptable @stolen Have you looked at the Terfisaslur link posted up thread. That might open your eyes a bit as to why some of us find your tone policing offensive.

Possibly the most ridiculous straw man yet.

Women deserve respect - true?

Myra Hindley killed children AND is a woman.

Myra Hindley deserves respect.

If you believe in premise 1 do you automatically believe in premise 3? No.

So. Stupid. I’m sorry, I’ve resisted name calling up to now, but your point really, really is.

If @StolenCookie ruled the world it’d probably be like the handmaids tale with a side order of extra misogyny as far as I can see from her posts

It’s all rather dreadful, and I think if I ruled the world it would be a better place 😊

What's dreadful is what Lia, those like Lia, the TRAs and all the craven, simpering allies are doing and saying. No, the world would not be a better place if you ruled it women would be reduced to being noting more than compliant doormats for men to walk all over and wipe their feet on.

And I shan’t either! I commend us both for not respecting someone who abuses women!

"Bint" is an offensive term for a woman. "Knob" is a neutral, common, non-profane slang term for a dick. It has no connotations regarding trans people, beyond the fact that pre op transwomen like Thomas have one.

And it was got out.

You are angrier at my use of a neutral slang term for a cock than you are about the willy in question actually causing distress to women who were forced to undress before it or lose their team place.

And you think we are the ones who need tone policing and moral correction.

Do you hear yourself?

Ah I understand now. We can object to Lia getting the penis out, but we mist couch our objections in ladylike and polite language and not point out the elephant in the room of Lia being a male. Gotcha. In old school MN terms. ODFOD.

The world would definitely be a better place, I promise you all.

Lessons in reading people’s actual arguments would be the order of the day and people would actually be able to have sensible discussions.

Complete ban on ridiculous straw men.

No abusing women in changing rooms.

No unwanted and exposed penises belonging to cis OR trans people.

Respectful language regarding all groups of people.

Cookies for all!

Why then are you arguing for respect for Lia in the language used about Lia and Lia's actions@StolenCookie ?

I hear myself loud and clear: let’s be respectful when talking about oppressed groups of people, even if a particular member of that community does something deplorable.

Sing it with me Mumsnet!!

I will be very respectful in my language about and towards oppressed people. As this does not include transpeople, we’re fine. You keep saying transpeople are oppressed and vulnerable. How so? How is a transwoman more oppressed than a grooming victim from Rochdale, or more vulnerable than a female rape victim?

No longer even trying to engage with the points, I see. A bit of platitudinous blather, a pretence about non-existent "straw men" and nothing about why it's more important to police the word "knob" than it is to protect women from real knobs.

You realise you're on here complaining about me not showing due respect to a knob being got out before unwilling, undressing females? You do realise that, right?

No, your song sucks.
Men shouldn't be in women's sports end of.
If a man chooses to show his lack of respect to women this way, I'll reference his knob and knobbishness as I like.

Sorry @StolenCookie its too late for the twee humour. You have been very offensive, ignored women explaining why your tone police was offensive and chastised people for not speaking in the way you wish.

Why must I respect a knob being got out in a women's changing room?

Because talking about Lia is inextricably linked with talking about trans people. And if we call one trans person a “laddy”, that’s showing transphobia to all trans people.