Rent and bills. Doesn't seem fair. AIBU?

[Perfectworld]

How would you split bills / rent in this scenario?

Both of us have 1x child each from previous relationships, both late 30s. Fiancé earns £120k, I earn £28k. I currently get child benefit and UC top up, which will cease when we move in together. He has suggested we pay half the rent each, plus he covers all joint utility bills, meaning I still have all non 'joint' bills e.g. my mobile phone, my car payment. Due to this, I will probably be left with less that I currently have spare each month (which is already very little). The rent I pay will be the same as I pay currently, due to needing a bigger house to support both of our DC. I will be worse off some months, and others about the same financially because I cannot claim UC or child benefit. On more expensive months, for instance, the months when DC's school dinner fee is due, I will be worse off than I am now. He will be saving approx £2k per month in this scenario, which he has said will be put towards joint savings.

What do you think is reasonable for each person, how would you split finances?

Definitely don’t move in with him unless the money situation is worked out differently, you and your child will suffer in the long run.

sit down and talk to him and tell him how much you are going to loose out on and how much your lifestyle will change for you and your son, if he doesn’t see a problem then end it.

@Testina Yes, that's exactly it. I'm not sure what to suggest and what is fair. I'd much rather we just went into things as equal, but I guess that's 'easy' to say as the person who earns less. I think something like 70/30 split would be a fairer compromise. Because even if he offers to make up the £200 I'm down, or £300, or £400, we still have such a disparity in income that without him 'subsidising' things like holidays, days out, presents for DC to make sure it is equal, it just wouldn't work. I also don't know how I feel about me 'profiting - UGH!' a couple hundred vs him profiting thousands. It just doesn't quite seem right... even though he's earning more money so it makes sense, it just makes me feel easy.

Sorry, should read, uneasy!

Youre just going round in circles you know what conversation you need to have with him, you need to sit down and clearly spell out these are the implications of me moving in with you are you comfortable with that yes or no and his reaction will tell you everything you need to know about whether or not the relationship is going to continue.
I moved in with my ex-husband and three weeks after I did so I got pregnant and got horrendous morning sickness and basically didn’t work again for three years, with baby 2 and a house renovation of his that I’d paid for and I started a business that was more flexible around the children and he actually mentioned in the wedding speech that hopefully the business would go a bit better now and increase contribution now my focus was on that instead of the wedding.
I should’ve picked my stuff up that night collected the children and left the cheeky fucker.

i’d be interested to hear his ex-wife‘s version of events of this debt etc

YOU shouldn't have to broach the subject. He should ask you to sit down and see if it works financially for both of you. Why is he not doing this, and making YOU the one who feels awkward about it all? This is basic stuff involved in starting a live in partnership IMV.

Anyway, you know instinctively that as it stands it is not the right decision for you at this time. On that basis I would point out to him that you will be worse off and would prefer to stay as things are for the moment. His response to this will tell you everything you need to know really.

This would be my absolute minimum to agree on:

1. you do not have less money than you have now
2. he does not have more money than he has now (but can still have more than you - my personal view)
3. if there is money saved by being together, that extra money is given to you, as long as it doesn’t then make you better off than him (on this salary differential, it won’t)
4. you both recognise that him being able to afford the rent alone and you not, puts you and your child in a vulnerable housing position: so before you move in, he saves 6 months rent and deposit and moving costs that then goes into an account in your name only in case of a split
5. you both agree that any day to day lifestyle differentials will be smoothed out by him paying more: that’s the ice-cream situation, you know he’ll be the one to pay. Which doesn’t stop you treating when you want to!
6. you agree on holidays - typical budget, who pays, and (given it will be him) whether that doesn’t means you actually end up better off than him (possible on some salary differentials, probably not on yours)
7. long term issues - like university maintenance. Do you decide to treat that as lifestyle (like your kids had the same family holidays) or under the principle of you being no worse off - so if your child misses out on a loan became of his income, he has to make it up.

This is a bit of an aside but…
He earns £120K (that’s about £6K take home, though most likely less as it doesn’t allow for pension)
That’s a lot of money.

He has sold his marital home at some point in the not so distant past.

He hasn’t bought another home (you talk about renting).

Yet he has £25K debt.

How did he come out of owning a property with so little equity? I get that they didn’t recoup the money spent on improving it. I get that the money was shared with his ex. I get that it might not have been shared evenly. But given the almost universal rising housing prices in the last 10 years, and low interest rates - how exactly did he sell that house, and come away with £25K debt?

I can actually imagine a legitimate reason: he has a massive pension and traded all the equity and keeping the debt to balance it.

But there could also be a fuckton of poor financial management behind that.

I’d want to understand that before deciding If we were financially compatible!

I feel for you on deciding what’s fair!

I’ve given plenty of detail on my view as the higher earner. But honestly, I met my second husband via OLD and I actually ignored some approaches from men who sounded like they were really well off. I knew that my personality is such that no matter how generous they were, and how genuinely they might be happy with one pot, it would just never suit me. I’d never to comfortable “taking” their money, and I’d resent feeling like the “poor” one if it meant having to say no to activities. So I just didn’t engage with them. Of course, far harder after you’ve actually fallen in love!

Fucking hell. Glad he's an Ex, @Nothappyatwork

Apart form the money situation @Perfectworld , do you love him? How is he with your child?

Apart from splitting the living costs, you and your child will also have to split the living space, free time etc. with him.

If he’s proposing a solution knowing that it will leave you worst off financially, I really cannot imagine the dynamic in other areas of your future life together being “equal”.

Equality doesn’t leave one parter with hardly anything and the other with thousands of pounds. He should be offering a solution that will reimburse you the loss of CB, UC, and some.
As you’ve noticed, you’ll be looking after a house of 2 adults, your DC and occasionally his child.

If he moved in with her, there would be no slack, as his contribution to her current household costs should compensate for the loss of UC. This problem has arisen because the OP intends on moving into his home, and into a lifestyle that's not affordable to her.

It is a different story when two people meet without kids. When kids on both sides already exists, the parent's first priority is to their child. And when you have kids on both sides moving in together, blending doesn't always work out as one might hope.

Personally I don't believe in the "a man is the plan" approach to life as one can see from my posts. As a woman, I am capable of looking after myself and my kids and I do not look to a man to take care of me and provide for me and finance my life and that of my kids. Of course "proportional" sounds great if you are the one contributing almost nothing. You get the lifestyle of the higher earner without needing to pay for it. I would never move in or marry someone who made a fifth of my salary and was thinking about how my financial status could benefit him and his kids after moving in. I want an equal partner. I don't want to look after anyone or subsidize their life. And to me an equal partner also doesn't have a philosophical view that I am the new bank and going to give them the life they want. Especially at the expense of my own kids. Not a chance I am taking money or opportunities away from my own kids so new guy can keep working his low paying job and live the good life off of me.

I think these arrangements really only work for people with very traditional values where the man is the provider and protector and takes care of his woman and in return she cooks and cleans and meets all his needs and bats her eyelids and smiles sweelty and plays the traditional housewife role. Then both benefit from the arrangement. But otherwise there will just be resentment if the lower income earner brings nothing more than themselves and expects a lot more to be given to them. It is one sided.

Op I think you say "thanks but no thanks".
You mention looking forward to lots of family days out, these can still happen while you are living separately.

@Testina 'No-one on this thread thinks it’s fair for her to be worse off.'

Well that's the question she asked, and for some reason known only to yourself you kept coming back with the challenge that he shouldn't have to share all his money.

Anyway, you seem at last to have come to your senses and understood it's not all about you.

I won’t do the MN head tilt, “did you mean to be so rude @Portiasparty ?” because you clearly did.

I’ve never suggested that it’s all about me. I’ve shared a lot of detail about my personal situation, because I think it’s more useful to the OP than just saying, “oh he should definitely share it all” or even “you should get a bit more.” As OP said herself - it’s easy to hold a one pot position when you’re not actually in a vastly different and probably permanent situation (e.g. not just during training or in between jobs).

Yes I did mean to be so rude because you going on about how wealthy you are and how it's not fair to share that is breathtakingly rude to the OP, and so you deserved it. I know you wrapped it up with the stuff about giving detailed info to the OP but it was both a stealth boast and putting the OP down, which was quite uncalled for.

You didn't need to say it was all about you, you made that perfectly clear.

Telling the OP that a one pot situation isn't fair, is ridiculous as that's not what she was looking for.

As I said, you've moderated your tone, so I'm relieved to see it.

Given his income and recent house sale, why are you renting and why does he have so much debt?

A stealth boast? 🤣.
Hardly. I only earn 2/3 of her boyfriend - where’s the boast in that?
And I’ve got a husband who earns 2/3 of what OP earns herself - again, where’s the boast in that?
I don’t even earn the mythical £100K+ “just getting by” number beloved on MN.

Just because I’m not reluctant to share actual numbers on an anonymous forum, that’s a stealth boast? OK 🤣

Is it just taboo for you to talk numbers? I think it’s helpful (though only OP is the final judge of that) because it shows I do understand what it’s like to manage a differential.

I’ve just finished reading a thread with a £110K joint income +£30K bonus, and a house purchase with a mortgage at least 3x what I could get. I’m financial small fry on MN. I don’t even have an island like Xenia 🤣

It’s not boasting - stealth or otherwise - to be open with figures on a thread where figures are relevant.🤷🏻‍♀️

Excellent post. This says it all for me.

I would not move in with him.

ThIs has got disaster written all over it .

You'll be £200 a month worse off at least and will end up doing the grunt work re kids and home while he saves money.

You'd have to be bonkers to even consider it.

If it was me I'd say I am not willing to lose so that you can gain. The starting point should be you are not suffering financially by him moving in.

Also, he needs to either do his full share of housework and take full care of his child or allocate some extra money to your finances in recognition of the fact he's going to benefit hugely from your presence as chief cook, cleaner and childcare.

But like I say, I wouldn't move in.

I can already see how this will go and I'm pretty sure you can too.

I will never again subsidise a man so should I ever live with one again, things would be 50/50.

If you cannot afford to do this, then do not move in.

I wouldnt move in because I would be wary of ending up parenting his child and my child being treated like a second class citizen.

@Midlifemusings The issue I think these days is that the men expect and get the housewife, the childcare and the blow jobs on demand but without having to be the provider and protector either.
I literally I don’t see how women benefit from these arrangements at all. What do they bring to the table, social acceptance, conformity ? I don’t get it !

I can absolutely see the points people are making about not wanting to support a lower earner. In the case of someone whose earning power is less because they've been the primary carer and homemaker, though, I don't think it's about wanting a subsidised life but about what's realistic after the previous arrangement ended in divorce.

But I don't find that men, as a group, value earning power in women the way women do in men.

Still, to expect her to be £200 a month worse off when you're on six figures isn't the kind of love I would want.

It's not his fault you earn so much less than him, and half and half for rent is fair, especially with him covering all other utilities. Of course all bills of yours should be covered by you.
If moving to the current property he is in, is too high rent for you, then don't move in, or look for a cheaper place to move to together.

Why are you so keen to move in with him? Just read the numerous thread on here about women who have been treated badly in similar arrangements ... you could end up homeless - and why move your DC into another man's home?

If he so wonderful - just carry on dating.