Rent and bills. Doesn't seem fair. AIBU?

[Perfectworld]

How would you split bills / rent in this scenario?

Both of us have 1x child each from previous relationships, both late 30s. Fiancé earns £120k, I earn £28k. I currently get child benefit and UC top up, which will cease when we move in together. He has suggested we pay half the rent each, plus he covers all joint utility bills, meaning I still have all non 'joint' bills e.g. my mobile phone, my car payment. Due to this, I will probably be left with less that I currently have spare each month (which is already very little). The rent I pay will be the same as I pay currently, due to needing a bigger house to support both of our DC. I will be worse off some months, and others about the same financially because I cannot claim UC or child benefit. On more expensive months, for instance, the months when DC's school dinner fee is due, I will be worse off than I am now. He will be saving approx £2k per month in this scenario, which he has said will be put towards joint savings.

What do you think is reasonable for each person, how would you split finances?

I don't understand why you keep posting about your situation which isn't the same as the OPs. If the OP was better off by moving in with her partner (like your partner is by living with you), then I don't think anyone would have a problem with it. The issue is that she'll be worse off, when she hasn't got that much anyway* *and her partner will be better off and he doesn't seem to care about that.

My husband earns massively more than me. I don't expect him to give me half his salary. But equally I wouldn't expect him to see me destitute, while he had way more than he could ever spend (I've done all the childcare, and the vast majority of the domestic responsibilities and house maintenance as well). Equally there have been times when he hasn't worked and he's shared my income without quibbling. There are other issues in our relationship but this isn't one of them.

If you could see you partner scrabbling to pay for any kind of social life, clothes, phone bill etc while you had buckets of savings plus could afford all those things, then I'd probably think that we have different views on what constitutes a relationship. But your relationship doesn't sound like that, so is irrelevant to the OP.

So you will be worse off financially AND doing childcare for him AND doing more of the heavy lifting at home because he works longer hours? And he gets to benefit from all that while you're penalized?

I really think you're putting your DC into a more vulnerable position if your relationship fails and you have stopped saving and have propped him up by being there. No economic cushion will be there for you.

And in terms of a breakdown of financials - I would be paying the same rent as I do now, his rent would be halved. He would pay all joint bills, but the benefits I get, totalling around £600 would be gone. My bills which wouldn't be considered personal - council tax, water, gas + electric, equal £400. Leaving me with a deficit each month of around £200 if we moved in.

So I'd be paying the same amount of rent, plus all my personal expenses, but the CB and UC is gone, meaning I am -£200 per month. Does that make sense? I would be able to scrape by being £-200 that amount, but I wouldn't be able to save, and I'd have to be constantly looking ahead to the following months and considering how I am going to afford to do things in the summer holidays, or for new school uniform, or for after school club fees. The £100 I manage to scrape and save each month would be gone. My savings would quickly deplete and I'd not be able to afford holidays and the like at all.

“more. I would be expected to do most of the childcare for my DC, a lot more for his too I imagine, and most of the household chores, cleaning, cooking, washing because his job is much longer hours and more demanding so it makes sense that I would do those things”

uh… no.

I’m posting a lot here because I’m the high earner not sharing everything and I don’t think that’s unfair at all.

I’ve literally just posted in answer to someone else that I have longer hours and more pressure.

My husband doesn’t do more cooking and cleaning because of that!! These are our choices.

I mean sure, when I’m working into the evening he’ll call up, “I’ll cook tonight!” and when I go to wash up after he’ll tell me not to. Because it is a loving partnership. But overall? House “stuff” is equal.

All our children are beyond the period of very hands on time consuming care, but when mine was younger I didn’t expect him to pick up my parenting.

So no, it doesn’t “make sense” AT ALL to me that you’re just deciding that you have to do his stuff for him a that he’s perfectly capable of fitting around his job now. Isn’t then that really just you being paid to be his housekeeper? If you “give” you domestic labour and he “gives” you money?

Let him keep his money. Let him keep his domestic labour.

Works for us!

Look at the long-term picture...as someone posted above..uni costs.
Will he subsidise your child at uni when they can't get a maintenance loan?
OP, you will lose your financial independence as it will become limited whilst his won't.
He will benefit a lot more than you in this. He will also be able to reduce his child maintenance bill just because your child lives with him. (No idea if he will do this or not though!)
You'll likely end up subsidising his ability to pay off his loan and increase his savings.

As a single parent, there is no way in hell I would do this.

The more I read your posts the more dismayed I get. You say it works for you and I am sure it does for him.

Seems to me you let yourself get taken for a ride.

If you don't claim the money for child benefit

You should still claim the child benefit, without the money
This is because, the National Insurance contributions will get paid while you have children. These contributions go towards your state pension & other benefits.

You can look up your individual National Insurance record on www.gov.uk

You can look up your individual state pension forecast on www.gov.uk

Suggest, do not rely on a man for your finances & future. Ensure that you keep an eye on your own finances

And what if the relationship doesn't work out after moving in? You'll be scrambling to find somewhere else to live for you and DC on 28, 000 income. Where I live, a lot of places want income to be 2.5-3x the rent!

Put yourself and your child first.

@Portiasparty the reason I keep posting is this, OP’s opening questing:

”How would you split bills / rent in this scenario?”

OP appears to only be considering 2 options - one pot, and his proposal that leaves her worse off.

She actually isn’t in a different situation to me - yet. She’s NOT worse off. She’s just had a proposal from him that leaves him worse off, and 13 pages in still hasn’t answered multiple people asking if she’s even pointed that out to him yet.

She could go for my scenario - that’s why I don’t think it’s irrelevant, and that’s why I’m still on the thread. Hoping it helps her to see that a higher earner not sharing all their money in a second marriage with no shared children doesn’t necessarily mean they’re an arsehole.

Of course she can hold out for one pot and decide he’s not for her - that’s her choice. But there are other proposals for her to consider which might also be fair.

It's taken quite a few posts but the simple maths emerged in the end. If you go ahead as suggested:

1. You will be £200 a month worse off and will bear increased domestic labour and childcare duties.
2. He will be £2000 better off and will gain the benefit of your domestic labour and childcare duties.

If these are the only terms he will agree then of course you can't move in together. That would be insane!

The proportionate contributions need to be adjusted to accommodate the saving and deficit. In short you should EACH end up £900 a month better off.

If his answer is that he doesn't want to share the £2k saving he will make I would not only refuse to move in, I would dump his tightwad arse pronto!

@Perfectworld you don’t need to give us the breakdown, you need to give it to him.

We believe you! You say you’ll be worse off, we believe you’ll be worse off.

Whether he’s taking the piss or not depends on whether he knows you’ll be worse off.

But you haven’t answered that question!

Exactly. The focus needs to be on long-range security for OP and DC, not short term gratification.

This man is willing to gain at your expense and your kids expense. Think about it.

What do you mean she's not worse off yet? We're all talking about the situation the DP has proposed, in which she would be worse off and he would be better off. How would that be fair when he's better off than her anyway?

Fair enough they should be able to talk about it but you banging on about how much you earn (yes we get how successful you are), doesn't really help the Op and reads more like you're justifying it to yourself and everyone on the thread (you haven't just mentioned it once!!!).

And where has she said she wants to share all his money? Other people may have proposed that but my reading of her posts just suggests she doesn't want to be worse off.

OP, you say: "I think if we are not at the stage where we can be equal partners in love and money, I'd rather just stay as we are now".

You won't be equal partners in money if he won't enthusiastically and voluntarily agree to a one pot arrangement. And he won't - because of he was going to then he'd have done so already.

So stay as you are now.

(If you move in together, it sounds as though you'll have less money and less time for your child, more childcare and housework, more stress and more worry. Seriously, why would you do it when you can avoid all of that by not moving in??).

@Portiasparty “What do you mean she's not worse off yet?”

I mean that she’s not in this situation yet.

They’re talking about moving in together. He’s made a proposal. She hasn’t told him that it leaves her worse off! (at least, she hasn’t said that she has told him that, hasn’t replied to any of the people asking if she has, and has posted nothing about his reaction to her saying that).

No-one on this thread thinks it’s fair for her to be worse off.

But it’s unfair to him, all the people saying how awful he is. Maybe he’s an arsehole. Or maybe she just needs to say, “actually that proposal leaves me £200 worse off” and he’ll say, “well that’s not fair, what should we do instead?”

Put it on a spreadsheet and show him.
The amount you need to save each month needs to be non negotiable

@CoffeeDeprivation

He has been able to save thousands. I have over 15k debt. He cannot understand how I got there.

I'm surprised that if he has a decent job he's able to hold down, he's not smart enough to understand that if someone earns much less and has more outgoings proportionally to their salary, they get into debt while the other party can save. Especially when you've presumably explained the following to him:

Food costs have increased over the last 5 years, my salary was reduced during maternity significantly, we have been booking kids on more clubs, there's more uniform more often, in lockdown I paid for takeaways because it was a way of giving me a break and I found the whole year exhausting...

He doesn't sound very nice. Especially if they are joint kids.

He's continued an arrangement that benefits him financially versus putting you into debt.

He could have offered a compromise even if temporary e.g. during mat leave / lockdown.

That's what you do when you're a team.

What a dick.

So you go to him and say you will be £200 down. He might not realise how much UC you will lose .

If he's earning that and saving, why hasn't he paid off his debt?

Put everything in a joint account and pay it out of there. Simple. I couldn't be bothered with splitting it in anyway, you're getting married, you share everything.

@Midlifemusings many men have said it’s joint savings love. But he hasn’t said anything about putting it in a joint account. If it goes into his account it’s his savings and it’s not joint at all. That seems to be his plan here, ‘joint savings’ is just listen to what I say not what I do and you will never see a penny of this money.

You would be expected to do most of the housework and some of his childcare? Op, that arrangement is only ok if you have an agreement that he will provide in return for you carrying the domestic load. He’s being crystal clear that he will not provide. You should do no more housework than he does, no more cooking and no childcare for his dc unless he does the same for you. It sounds like you wouldn’t be very good at this split and he wouldn’t be any good at all at pulling his weight so you should hold off on moving in. When you have the conversation change ‘equal in love and money’ to ‘equal in love, money and pulling your weight around the home’. Nobody should be treated like an unpaid housekeeper.

He knows I will be money down and he will be money up with the arrangement. He will be halving his rent, so even with paying all the bills he will still be up thousands. I think he sees that because he has offered to pay all the joint bills, I should be better off, when in reality I'm not. I just don't really know how to broach it. For example, he could offer to pay the £200 extra, but it still means our lifestyles will be very different, and he will still be 'profiting' by living with me. Where I will be breaking even / losing money / even if he offers to pay a bit more, he will still be making a lot more out of living together.

I've always been around people who, once they make the commitment to be together, sort of all pitch in together as a partnership. It's the way I've always been with my exes, but I appreciate the disparity in earnings here makes that more difficult.

It always worries me because if anything did happen between us, he can afford to continue renting the house and paying the bills on his own, there is no way I could. In his proposal I'd be homeless, or have no deposit for a new place, no means of moving or ways of saving to move, this all really scares me too, and the only way of rectifying this is to split more equally percentage wise, do a 'one pot' or not move in. Appreciate everyones input we just need a frank conversation.

Frankly, I'd run if he can't see how this is financially and working wise unfair to you.

Suspect I know why his marriage broke down.

“He knows I will be money down and he will be money up with the arrangement. He will be halving his rent, so even with paying all the bills he will still be up thousands. I think he sees that because he has offered to pay all the joint bills, I should be better off, when in reality I'm not. I just don't really know how to broach it.”

I don’t understand this.
Either he knows that you are money down, or he thinks that you will be better off.
Which actually is it?

Do you mean that he thought you’d be better off with his suggestion, you have told him you’re actually not, and no he’s asking for your suggestion? In which case, I see your difficulty in deciding what’s fair, and don’t think he’s in the wrong (for now).

If he knows you’re worse off and still thinks his suggestion is the way to go - then I’d not just not move it, I’d dump him.