AIBU to ask how do you manage it all if you work full time and have kids?

[dillydally24]

I have two DC (both under three), work full time in a 50-60 hour a week senior role and have no time for anything. I have a lot of help - a full time nanny and a cleaner who comes twice a week - but our house is often a bit of a tip and I never do anything for myself. My DH helps out, but his work is more demanding than mine, so he doesn't make a huge impact. We also have a dog and a house renovation in the go. If you work full time and have young kids, how on earth do you manage it?! Any tips are gladly received. It is this just the way it is for the next few years while the kids are young...?

And are you breastfeeding? Do you need to do the night wakenings or can you split it?

In a professional role there is no concept of “unpaid.” No-one is on an hourly rate, they are paid an annual salary that is independent of hours worked.

Work full time (40 hours a week but can be nearer 50) dh works similar but I do mine over over less days

Senior role with massive stress, responsibility. Dh self employed.

We have no cleaner, no paid help. Kids go to my mums after school on the days we're both working

Pre school we split the childcare between us

It will get easier op. The house will be dine, kids at school.

Your oh also having a full on career is not an excuse for most things to fall to you. He's just as responsible for home life as you are, dont let him get away with shirking responsibility

Same here, barely treading water. I sometimes wonder if it’s really all worth it

I get up at 5am, get myself ready, get DD up and her ready, tidy around and throw a laundry on so it's ready for when I get home. Drop dd off at wrap around childcare by 7, then go to work. Pick up dd around 6, I get her ready for bed have tea, put dd to bed, then in the evenings I try and get a few hours of my freelancing done. Tidy up before bed. Bed around 11.
The weekend I will do the big clean and food shop and work my freelancing or I'm also doing a postgrad course so I might have to study too.
My trick is, keep the house tidy so it's constantly on top of, lots of easy to make food with not a lot of cooking from scratch, no time for exercise, and not have a lot of sleep but I have about 7 coffees a day to help! Dd also spends a lot of time in childcare.

I worked a pretty intense compressed week (40 hours over 3 days) when my DD1 was small and had the other two days with her . I loved having the time with her and keeping a well paid job at the same time but it was exhausting as all five days of my week were incredibly long and demanding (and of course, however hard I worked I was still seen as a ‘part timer’ by all the men!)
My best tip is to find an amazing nanny! Nursery is great but the rushing to and fro for pick ups etc introduces a surprising amount of stress in my experience

I work in a relatively senior role, and when starting my most recent job I just refused to agree to regularly work more than my stated hours (37.5) and had this amended in my contract. In my experience you can't do a good job working these type of hours anyway because you're too exhausted to work efficiently. After DC number 2 I'm going to reduce to 4 days per week just because I can afford it and I love spending time with my child. When you look back later in life what will you regret more, missing out on working ridiculous hours or missing precious time spent with DC?

I think you accept this is how it is for a few years - but be very careful that you don’t burn out. 50-60 hours a week plus two kids sounds a hell of a lot to deal with.

You can probably just about keep your head above water because of the Nanny and the cleaner - a luxury most can’t afford - but as you’re finding with a dog and house renovation it’s all still too much. Something eventually will have to give, be careful it’s not your sanity.

Bear in mind you may need to keep Nanny on when DC start school as schools generally finish at 3pm, unless you’ll have a childminder or use kids clubs every day.

Could your DH reduce his hours? Could you drop a day at work for a few years? It shouldn’t all fall on you to do more at home or sacrifice your career, but be careful you don’t burn out.

We have 1 DS (3) and 2 DCats. I cope by only working 4 days a week (from home). DH works FT but WFH about 3 days a week, and I get a lot of leave so at the moment take an additional day off per week to try and use that up (I use the day to do house stuff, cook, etc). We don’t have a cleaner so we share that, and have let standards slide a bit. My job is middle management - DH is a lawyer. My mental health is very poor after a breakdown and PND. My physical health isn’t great either. I would not cope with a FT, senior job as well as having a child and a DH with a senior job. I accept not everyone can afford, or desires, to work part time however.

At 50 hours a week I wouldn't manage either. It does get easier though, my youngest is 4 and once in a while we will play "the tidy up game". But mostly I have accepted the mess status

@Fulbe lucky you, sounds like you have an understanding employer and work in an industry where that kind of arrangement is possible. For some, mine included, you can’t just amend your contract to not work the expected hours and not can you decide to work part time without either ending up doing your 50 hours across 4 days instead of 5 or massively screwing over all hope of future progression or, most likely, both. Some of us are breadwinners and whilst we’d love to spend more time with our kids we just can’t do that without other major sacrifices. It’s not always as simple as just deciding to do less. Also, when I only had one child it all seemed easier to me too.

Do you have any family support? My DH worked 7 days a week and often away. I worked 4 long days and some evenings/weekends when 2DC were little. What kept me sane was grandparents having DC in half terms and some of Easter and summer. Meant I could catch up and enjoy some time when they came back. It’s tough. Now back to 40 to 50 hour weeks and no idea how I did it.

I don't work 50-60 hours. I work 40 hours with little commute (cycling or home working). So that helps. Husband similarly works a normal week. Both relatively senior roles but nothing massively fancy.
We have 4 kids aged 2 to 10. And a full time nanny.
Our house is nice but not massive. So maybe that helps.
But what helps:

• not working crazy hours.
• husband does his fair share, mostly he does the cooking
• our nanny is an absolute genius and does a lot for us.
• good organisation
• realistic expectations. Some evenings will not go to an and that's ok.

I manage to go running and do some sport during the week. Same for husband. I also do a bit of volunteering but not much time atm. It's important to carve out some time for yourself and each other.

'plan'

After seeing your latest update I'm puzzled at precisely what your DH does?

This is interesting. I've not considered a virtual PA before, but that could be helpful. Have you used one and does it not end up taking more time explaining what you need done versus doing it yourself? I'd love to hire a part time housekeeper, but I'm very attached to my cleaner - she's been with us for years - and I don't want to cut her hours. She can't take on the housekeeper role for us because she doesn't want to and isn't physically up to it in any case. I guess I need to sort out that situation somehow as outsourcing seems to be the answer.

@Treacletoots DH works super long and unpredictable hours. He is sometimes around more, in which case he chips in, but as what he does is transaction-orientated, if there's a transaction on, it's pretty hopeless. It's not his fault - it's just the nature of the work he does.

I hate to say it but time-wise I’m not sure it does get easier as they’re older…at least it hasn’t for me. I have three DC, all primary school age. Once they started school it was the school run cutting short the work day (compared to nursery) reading and homework and play dates after school, trying to keep up with school plays, mufti days, pta events, homework, and now the three of them between them do soooo many after school clubs, we have at least one extra curricular thing each night, and some night 3 or 4. I spend my life ferrying them around, trying to squeeze in meals and shopping and tidying, and I only work 20 hours a week. Honestly feel like I’m drowning in it all sometimes …😬

I was a solo mum with one DC. Worked 40hrs per week with some overtime and hour commute per day (30mins each way) via car. This was really through necessity, not a career. I technically probably could have found a lower paying job but it meant we would be skint, and I would not be able to afford extra activites, days out etc.

• I only really cooked four days per week (twice at the weekend), the other three days were left overs, meals that require little cooking (soup, pasta etc) and takeaways.
• I cleaned on a Friday night and DD did her own laundry from when she was about 10.
• Most activites that DD signed up for were at the weekend. If she had one during the week I would use my lunch hour to drop her off, and then I would collect her after to work.
• I left DD to her own devices if I was busy with something at home, but this was in the days pre iPads etc and we didnt have sky so screen time was never an issue. She always found something to do.
• I picked my battles if we had a disagreement when she was a teen.
• DD accepted that I could not turn up too class reading and the like

She's a grown adult, just finished her Master's and about to move abroad. I would say she's a well adjusted adult.

Ditto but without the nanny or cleaner (cleaner impossible to get where we live at the mo despite being willing to pay a premium!!) - house is a tip and will be for at least another year or so, barely stay on top of laundry and generally just about surviving! We coped a lot better before covid, all being at home in the lockdowns made things a lot worse and then workloads being insane has meant we can’t get on top of it again.

It’s not sustainable - but what I have done is prioritised an hour 4 days a week for myself, I go for a run but to do it I go before anyone else gets up so even less sleep!

To answer your question re a virtual PA - there is a bit of extra time needed in the beginning to get them up to speed and how you like things. I use one for work - own business - and have been chuckling this week as I've been seeing her sending out emails on things I haven't asked for.... because I've been too busy but she knows it needs doing so she's just getting on with it. Once they're on top of things, it's incredible how much stress they take away from you. Also, I found that in the beginning I only got her to do the odd thing. Now she does loads.

If your cleaner can't take on the housekeeping role, can she at least do an extra hour or two a week? You don't say how many hours she does but when I was working those sort of hours, our cleaner came for 5 hours a week and did EVERYTHING - changed and washed bedding, changed and washed towels, worked her way round the bigger jobs like windows/inside fridge/inside cupboards etc. Which meant all we had to do was washing and day-to-day tidying and kitchen cleaning.

Ditto your nanny - would she be open to an extra 30 minutes a day at either the beginning or end of the day to sort breakfast/dressing or to definitely be sorted with bath and bed. Even just a few days a week. I have a few friends who write into their nanny's agreed hours that she works late one or two days a week (nanny either wants extra hours or it's a flexi type arrangement. But flexi won't work for you and your DH).

I will also say that if you're in a senior role doing these hours, the above flexibility or extra hours from the nanny would take some of the work pressure off. I very quickly realised that the need to leave at exactly a set time every day really put a lot of pressure on me. This is something I struggle with a lot currently due to the way we're set up here. It was easier when I knew that at least a few days a week, if I was in the middle of something I could finish it, or I could take a call and not be stressed that if it didn't end on time I'd miss my train.

Less hours. Otherwise you'll be missing out on a lot of what they do, especially when they start school. You can pick up more hours again when they are older.

I work full time in a demanding job, have 100% of the mental load and manage the household, do all the DIY myself, but outsource cleaning and ironing. Only have 1 child. 2 if you count my husband.

How do I cope? I don't. About once a month, I have a mini breakdown. I'm often just on the cusp of crying because of the overwhelm.

No advice but you're not alone.

I work similar number of hours to you, though they can be quite irregular, and have two DC (9 & 11). DH works longer hours. Two key things work for us. 1= pay for as much help as you can. We have daily cleaner, occasional gardener and dog walker (x3 days per week), plus amazing childminder and lots of babysitters (mainly super fun teenagers whom my DC love!) This frees me up to do the stuff I want / need to do - activities with DC, cooking for the family, life admin etc. 2 = I don’t sleep much…late to bed, early to rise. Lots of people would suggest working shorter hours but we’re happy and this works for us. Good luck!

I’m definitely finding that the older they get, the more they need me.

I'm in a similar situation.

Lone mum to 2-year old twins. I work in a senior, stressful role. Luckily I work from home, so no commute. Work about 50 hours a week.

I've two nannies to cover the day! The main nanny comes at 8:15am and leaves at 5:15pm. The second nanny comes at 5:15, and leaves at 6:30, 7 or 8pm, depending on the day (I've meetings till those times each day).

I do all cooking for the twins, and make everything from scratch. Every day at 12, the nanny has a break, while I give my kids their lunch. (They have their main meal at lunchtime).
I give them dinner about twice a week.

I do all bedtimes alone, and then back for more meetings (with the US) till about 9/ 9:30. Then I have dinner, and go to bed with a glass of wine and my book!

I don't have a cleaner, so have to put up with the house not being as clean/tidy as I'd like. The twins don't get bathed as often as I'd like.
I've no time for me, since I'm either working or looking after the toddlers. I love my hour in bed reading/mumsnetting though.