AIBU to ask how do you manage it all if you work full time and have kids?

[dillydally24]

I have two DC (both under three), work full time in a 50-60 hour a week senior role and have no time for anything. I have a lot of help - a full time nanny and a cleaner who comes twice a week - but our house is often a bit of a tip and I never do anything for myself. My DH helps out, but his work is more demanding than mine, so he doesn't make a huge impact. We also have a dog and a house renovation in the go. If you work full time and have young kids, how on earth do you manage it?! Any tips are gladly received. It is this just the way it is for the next few years while the kids are young...?

But teens are also busier! I've just added up that my teens do at least a 50 hour week during term time. They go to an independent school which they love (and which we can afford because we work in the kind of jobs we do). They're out of the house at 7.30 to 4.30 Monday to Saturday

Sorry, pressed post too soon. Anyway, was going to say that if you add in clubs, they're often out until 6pm on weekdays. So actually I don't work any longer hours than they do! Yes, there are the holidays of course, but between annual leave, staying with family and a couple of paid-for summer courses, we make it work.

wandlight

I hear what you are saying. I don't think that set up fosters close relationships between the parents and teens. Google boarding school syndrome. DH was " parented" like that nannies when tiny, then long prep school daus followed by boarding school, he is ok but not close to his DM in the way I am close to my parents. Now in his forties with our own teens he can be quite resentful of his DMs choices.

Not sure if it matters she wasn't a career woman.

But then I don't have a particularly close relationship with my mother, and she was a full time SAHM. (There's no big 'problem' and I had a perfectly fine childhood, but we're just not terribly close. I also wish now that I'd had the chance to do more sport, music etc as a kid - I only discovered those things later.) Plus, I don't think it's a working mother thing - most of the kids I know who have a similar education/lifestyle to my kids also have a SAHM!

Obviously were going to disagree, and I totally see your pov, but I don't think it's as simple as a SAHM/WOHM thing.

I have two DC under 7, no nanny but youngest is in nursery 4 days a week. Dh and I both work full time, he works 36 hours a week compressed and I do 60 hours a week.

We share pick ups and drop offs. I work outside a lot of clubs DD does - sat in the car! I wake at 4 to get work done before they wake and I work 8-11 in the evening to catch up on work.

I do the housework at the weekends and try to be 'present' whenever I'm with the dc.

I sacrifice leisure time without the DC and any hobbies or fitness (although I cycle the DC in most days). It's hard going but will get easier as they grow and become more independent at weekends etc

I think there's a leap here from both parents working full on jobs, to both parents being unavailable to their kids. Those parents are outsourcing the time when they would still remain unavailable to their kids (cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping) and tend to focus on the time together as quality time and connection. The extra money can remove stress and roadblocks and the parent can have a role that fulfills them outside of their kids life. That's really good for kids to see too. It's always frustrating to see these conversations descend into one type of family versus another.

Agreed. And there isn't just one 'working family' model either. Eg although I do outsource cleaning (because I hate it), I don't outsource any cooking or grocery shopping - they're priorities for me personally, so I do them myself. I only really outsource cleaning plus a week or two a week of holiday childcare. Others' lives would look different. It's not black and white.

@FrecklesMalone

Also where is the joy for you. Yes work can be gratifying but life needs variety. Where are your friends in all of this? Who will you have I'd things go tits up and DH isn't there? No

I fit in quite well thank you. I have a job that I enjoy, and if ever I stopped enjoying it I could afford to quit tomorrow. I spend plenty of time with my children both in the week and at weekends. And I have the money to be able to indulge my hobbies and a husband who is able to be there when I want to go out (or can afford a babysitter if we both want to go out).

If DH died I’d be fucked, as he genuinely is an equal parent and I wouldn’t be able do this without him. If we divorced and he continued to be an involved parent, we’d carry on pretty much as we are but separately. But either way, I’d be better off than if I’d have chosen to be a stay at home mum.

Surely the option isn't SAHM or 50/60 hours a week? Most people I know work 37.5 hours. With it dropping to one of the parents (usually the woman but not always working around 30 hours post kids).

But so what? That suits them; this suits me. (I’ve done a 37.5 hour a week job. I was bored out of my mind. Never again.)

Generally I just don't have the hubris to judge other parents ( sahm, full time, part time) unless they are actively abusive. I haven't always made the best parenting decisions myself and I am mildly surprised that others are so confident in their own decisions. How does anyone know until the end of their lives that their decisions were good ones? We don't.

"I'd much rather pay for childcare than a sahm"

One of the most twisted comments I've ever read on MN. Imagine having a husband who thought like this. God help this poster.

@u1tramar1ne

God doesn't exist

Why? I've seen quite a few people on MN say that they're not comfortable with the pressure of being the sole earner and prefer it when both partners are earning.

I work 55 hours a week (11hr days and no I can’t cut down as I’m a childminder) I have my own 4yo and am a carer to my mum-in-law who has dementia and breast cancer. I wish to god I could cut back somewhere but I honestly can’t. My husband is also self employed, we have no family to help out and friends all have their own children of similar age. I wholeheartedly wish I could step of the damn hamster wheel sometimes or scream ‘what about me’ but honestly no one gives a shit. I have a cleaner (she’s amazing) and a dog walker but I still can seem to be able to pee in peace 😩 Life is hard and relentless but I have a roof over my head and food on my table so I have it better than some. Hugs OP, life sucks at times

@Polpetto We really don't spend much, our carpets are threadbare and we mainly buy second hand clothes. Our house is not big. We have one car. I am the main breadwinner but still earn less than the mean wage for the UK. Our holidays are usually spent visiting family and friends. I focus my time and money on the things that matter to me. Other people will have different values.

I simply put my comment up to demonstrate that it is possible to argue for what you want or need. In my industry I am in demand, and I know that's not the case for everyone. However it is always the case that if we don't ask we definitely won't get these things! From what I have heard and experienced, women find it harder to negotiate on pay and conditions. Also it is everyone's legal right to re-negotiate their hours when returning after maternity leave.

Tell your OH to stop working so many hours and put some time in with the house and kids. And tell him you don't want to come home to find him looking frazzled. Should meet you at the door with a martini and nothing more than a smile. (kids having been locked in their rooms so as not to disturb your adult alone time)

@Fulbe your comment implies that the OP isn’t working part time because she (unlike you) isn’t willing or able to ask for or negotiate a different arrangement, or perhaps isn’t as “in demand” with her employer as you are with yours - is that really what you think? Some industries aren’t set up for part time working and the arrangement you have just isn’t possible. Having a job in one of those industries doesn’t mean that the OP loves her kids less than you love yours (which your post also implies btw).

Well as somebody who’s been inspected by social services during a section 7 report for my divorce I can assure you that threadbare carpets would go down like a fucking lead balloon with them and you’d be told to get your arse to work more sure that your children don’t have to live in such shit conditions. And Lord help you if they don’t agree with your bedroom sharing arrangements or think your bathroom is a suitable size for the number of people in the house. Let’s hope you never fall under their scrutiny.

Polpetto you put this very well.

It's just not true that all jobs can negotiate shorter hours. Some roles have been mentioned before - Corporate Lawyers etc and there are so many more including the CEO , other members of the executive team. And I'm I sure a lot more I'm not mentioning.

That said I recognise that by being creative it's sometimes possible - including leave of absence and special arrangements for specific issues. I've benefited from that and seen others both men and women do so for a variety of reasons including caring responsibility, illness etc . But in certain roles it's just not possible to do the job on part time hours.