Flight to Rwanda

[lbab1702]

I’d love to get a flight to Rwanda. Beautiful country and people ( I’ve been there before) but I don’t understand why refugees to the U.K. should go there.

Oh dear oh dear cricketing. I'd quit now if I were you, you've already had one post quite rightly deleted.

Church of England

As we've said repeatedly, the Church of England’s opposition to deporting asylum seekers without any kind of assessment or care is not because the destination is Rwanda.

We would oppose such heartless treatment wherever people were sent.

We oppose this policy because it outsources our responsibilities, and treats vulnerable and traumatised people without any kind of dignity, compassion or justice.

This is not how God calls us to treat each other.

We’ll continue to call for a humane and effective immigration system, and to offer our support to national and local government to deliver it.

And in parishes we’ll continue to help local communities receive asylum seekers and others arriving from overseas.

twitter.com/JustinWelby/status/1538225138520449024?t=Mw09GFzjyK8C4O6dZZsijQ&s=19

You say it was 'quite rightly' deleted. Can you tell me why it was deleted?

Ask MN

If you don't know I can't help you. Yes, I agree, take it up with MNHQ.

@Roussette how can you say it was rightly deleted if you don't know?

I said if you don't know, I can't help you. Not me.

@Roussette come on, you don't know what was in that post do you?

cricketing

was it the one were you told someone their experiences of racism was ‘exaggerated’ (my word not yours)

if so i think that’d be why

Considering they also state that there's racism in 'literally anything you can think of' it's pretty safe to assume that their world view might be a little off don't you think?

Just off the top of my head,, hmm

• Healthcare (outcomes) why are Black women 5x more likely to die during childbirth than white women.


• Education


• Policing

The thing is, to consider it just my 'world view' nicely indeed very intentionally erases my actual life experiences. Of course for you it's a world view because you don't exist in a world in which a police officer can stop you not for a traffic violation but to ask if the Mercedes is yours because "it's quite an expensive car."

I read it. Twice.
So do not tell me I don't know what was in it.

Why the hell is MNHQ allowing such free rein to the racists on this thread? Why don't they just ban them straight off? Is traffic to the site so low that they can't afford to get shot of the bigots?

But back to the Rwanda policy - the reason why women and children have safe passage is because European countries largely facilitated them to do so. Trains, waiving visas, Eurostar even said they could travel free. Processing centres were set up. When you're doing the same journey from Somalia, Afganistan etc there literally is not a safe route on which you could hedge your bets. You'd largely have to put your 2 toddlers and your wife on a dingy and just 'hope for the best'.

I was absolutely astonished at the quick and pragmatic approach European countries took to get as many people out of Ukraine as possible. It was absolutely amazing. The government even offered people £300 (a paltry sum but something nonetheless) to act as hosts. None of these things exist for brown and black people.

And it was not lost on me the appalling treatment of black people fleeing Ukraine. It's literally a war and people still found time to be racist. Black refugees fleeing Ukraine were taking to elsewhere in France. They were stopped from boarding trains. They were told their visas were wrong. All because and I'm just speculating here: they are BLACK!.

Racists will never admit they're racists because in their minds they're right and 'everyone thinks like that'.

I hope this thread isn't representative of the UK and its people.

Just keep reporting to make them aware

If the Tories use the Rwanda debacle to take us out of the ECHR, then who knows what mistreatment they will visit upon us all...I definitely think keeping 24 hour tabs on the unemployed is not beyond the realms of possibility. Maybe on the disabled too. Let's make sure they really do need those "free" cars. And carers-let's make sure they really are caring for 35 hours per week before we give them £1.99 an hour.

And so we are edging ever closer to facism

When you're doing the same journey from Somalia, Afganistan etc there literally is not a safe route on which you could hedge your bets. You'd largely have to put your 2 toddlers and your wife on a dingy and just 'hope for the best'

Exactly. This is why the people coming across are mostly young fit men who stand the best chance of reaching safety alive. But even then, as we know, not all of them do.

@RepublicOfNarnia I didn't say there was zero racism, I was merely pushing back on the claim that it is everywhere, because I don't believe it is. And I don't believe that's what's happening with Ukraine refugees.

For that to met with my posts being reported (and actually deleted), called a bigot, a rascist and a fascist(!) for doing so shows that we are heading to a dark place indeed.

I'll let you all get back to your echo chamber.

Claudine and Duncin someone on this or the other thread mocked me for saying the Uk was sliding into fascism. Literally the next day, the government started making noises about leaving the ECHR. 🤐

“The idea for the creation of the ECHR was proposed in the early 1940s while the Second World War was still raging across Europe. It was developed to ensure that governments would never again be allowed to dehumanise and abuse people’s rights with impunity, and to help fulfil the promise of ‘never again’.”

Pretty sure the treatment of asylum seekers (detained, harnessed, dragged by their hair) in that Rwanda flight goes against article 3. (Article 3 – prohibition of torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment
Nobody, under any circumstances, can torture or abuse anyone else. We should never be treated in ways that cause us serious physical or mental suffering.”)

If you think its okay to fly a load of PEOPLE to another country that they don't want to go to then you are treating human beings like cattle.

God yes a dark place where people don’t deny other people’s experience of racism, however will we cope.

Russia is using exactly the same tactics in Ukraine as it used in Syria. Except one country’s people gets safe routes (which I’m glad they do!) and the other country’s people gets accused of being economic migrants.

Ukrainians aren’t Muslim so they’re more culturally similar - except 1) Some Iranians forced to leave Iran are persecuted due to being Christian and they’re also accused of being economic migrants. 2) not everyone in the Uk is a white Christian so culturally similar to who? (rhetorical question).

Librarians did you see the speech by Mhairi Black a few months back?

It's not 'sliding' Librarian, it's across the West and galloping headlong towards it embracing all the practices of the 1930s. A friend left communist Eastern Europe for UK in 1967, sought asylum here, then* moved to USA where his adult life has been spent. He recently applied to his birth country for a passport as he feels, on balance, that Europe is going to be a safer place to be in the future given the headlong rush of USA to the right. He never envisaged that he would plan to move his family out of USA. And Europe is a fingers crossed destination. He could come back here. Hollow laughter from him "have you seen the state of your country now?" What a shameful bunch of chancers and liggers we've got in government. Even more shaming, we elected them.

Depressing reading here on modern slavery in legal and illegal immigration.

Care workers trapped in debt

NOTES FOR THE LESS KNOWLEDGEABLE (there’s no shame in not knowing so don’t take this as a telling off):

ASYLUM SEEKERS ARE NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

SOME ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE THE VICTIMS OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING AND MODERN SLAVERY.

SOME LEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE ALSO VICTIMS OF MODERN SLAVERY.

“The findings raise urgent concerns about modern slavery in Britain and come amid a worsening social care staffing crisis, with vacancy rates in England reaching 10%, according to the charity Skills for Care.

In February, the government added care workers to the shortage occupation list, relaxing the requirements for them to come to Britain provided they are sponsored by an employer.

Announcing the scheme, home secretary Priti Patel said it would “help alleviate” the pressures by attracting thousands of international care workers. But four months on, the evidence suggests the route is being widely exploited by rogue recruiters.”

“Care workers have become trapped in debt bondage – a form of modern slavery – as a result of being made to pay the fees. Suspected victims described how agents had deducted money from their salaries and withheld their passport or residence permit until they repaid the debt.”

This practice of withholding pay and ID documents was rampant in the agricultural sector, which is now licensed prevent this happening, so I really hope the government will do the same to protect care workers.

Relevance: “THerE’S nO rOom” but we can’t function without immigration.