Flight to Rwanda

[lbab1702]

I’d love to get a flight to Rwanda. Beautiful country and people ( I’ve been there before) but I don’t understand why refugees to the U.K. should go there.

Yes, I think someone called you "unhinged" @BewareTheLibrarians . Well I am unhinged too in that case!

This is a genuine question of mine

Do we assume all people concerned with immigration as racists?

I can see why it may be assumed so if they support the Rwanda scheme

A discussion was had after a fitness class this week, some in our group parents are immigrants (as is my mother) and a few are very concerned about immigration - with one or two in support of Rwanda, which surprised me.

The fascism one? Oh yes, I’d forgotten about that with all the things happening but it’s a pretty powerful one isn’t it, and the last part feels very relevant to now.

“Over the last 12 years, I fear we have been sleepwalking closer and closer to the F word. I know everyone is scared to say it for fear of sounding over the top or being accused of going too far, but I say this with all sincerity. When I say the F word, I am talking about fascism—fascism wrapped in red, white and blue. You may mock and you may disagree, but fascism does not come in with intentional evil plans or the introduction of leather jackboots. It does not happen like that. It happens subtly. It happens when we see Governments making decisions based on self-preservation, based on cronyism, based on anything that will keep them in power, when we see the concentration of power while avoiding any of the scrutiny or responsibility that comes with that power. It arrives under the guise of respectability and pride, which will then be refused to anyone who is deemed different. It arrives through the othering of people and the normalisation of human cruelty. I do not know how far down that road we are. Time will tell, but the things we do in the name of economic growth—the warning signs are there for everyone else to see, whether they admit it or not.”

@newnamethanks I think you’re right - maybe we can compromise on “galloping down a well-oiled slide”?

A discussion was had after a fitness class this week, some in our group parents are immigrants (as is my mother) and a few are very concerned about immigration - with one or two in support of Rwanda, which surprised me.

It's not that surprising - some people like to pull up the drawbridge behind them. It's very easy to think of immigrants/asylum seekers from a country that isn't the one that you came from as 'other'.

That’s what I thought too.

Especially as PPatel also hales from a family of immigrants to the UK.

I also think that once you live in a country where things like clean drinking water, benefits systems, (although not great) free healthcare and a good standard of life it becomes hard to imagine a life without these things and how desperate other humans are without them, add to that the threat of life/torture. We really need to put ourselves in their shoes to see how utterly desperate they are for a better life.

As a PP said, there could be excellent systems in place to sort out genuine asylum seekers from economic ones. Although I do sympathise greatly with the Ukrainians, the way the western world came together to support them has highlighted that.

@ClaudineClare Haha, yes, “unhinged” was a particular delight! I did notice there was no evidence/argument to show the UK isn’t sliding into fascism, just name calling as per.

@Tillsforthrills I don’t think all people concerned about immigration are racist at all. Some people put across their concerns really well and you can understand why they have concerns.

The ones who just come on to throw insults and yell “but economic migrants!” and don’t have any kind of coherent argument are more likely to be racist or just have read/seen a lot of the more right wing type media portrayal and believed it because -why wouldn’t they? If that’s the only information you’ve seen, it makes sense you would think that way. I hope some of the information on this thread has given people a different perspective or at least opened their eyes to the fact that what you see in the Daily Mail/Twitter/Facebook isn’t necessarily true.

Case in point - This week alone, the amount of Tory mps I’ve seen on Twitter describing asylum seekers as “illegal immigrants” is crazy. They have a responsibility with their language that they’re failing to hold up, as stoking division is more important to them than being honest. If you don’t have the best understanding of the asylum system and see your mp describe people as “illegal” you’re going to believe them.

No morals at all.

I hadn't seen Mhairi Black's speech before, thank you for adding it here. Everyone contributor on this thread should read it but 'none so blind as they that won't see' as my mother used to say. My mother who, in 1938, stood next to a young man from an immigrant family who was shouting his support for Mosley at Speaker's Corner. It never goes away, the appeal of a 'strong leader', to the weak and hard of thinking.

Do we assume all people concerned with immigration as racists?

No

In that case, I'd love to know what he thinks about the greedy Labour led rail strikes.

The lazy narrative of racism, when it comes to discussing immigration. So predictable, so ignorant, and there's the irony.

Where are the facts to show that we are not full to capacity?

Gosh and there's me thinking I was on a thread about the Rwanda policy. Silly me!

Where are the facts to prove we are?

Where are the facts to show that we are not full to capacity?

Where are the facts to show that we are full to capacity?

Don't worry, the lefty MNs do it every time on a thread unrelated to the Tories.

@Callingoccupants Have you got a source for the strikes being Labour led? All I can find is stuff like this which shows Labour leadership being quite non-comittal.

“On BBC Question Time last week Labour’s shadow health secretary, Wes Streeting, said on the forthcoming rail strikes, “I’d prefer they weren’t going ahead … but if I were a member of the RMT, and my job was at risk like this, then I would be voting to go on strike to defend my job and terms and conditions”. Pretty uncontroversial you would think, and hardly the rhetoric of a latter-day Arthur Scargill.”

“However, the Labour Party is not denying the story reported in The Times on Thursday, that the milquetoast militant shadow health secretary apologised to his shadow cabinet colleagues for being too pro-strike in his comments. Earlier this month his fellow shadow cabinet member Lisa Nandy also gave the impression she supported the RMT members’ actions, but when asked for clarification “a spokesperson for Nandy declined to clarify whether she supported or opposed strike action”.”

“RMT members will be striking next week as they have not had a pay offer and oppose thousands of job cuts. Inflation is forecast by the Bank of England to hit 11 per cent, and workers across industries and sectors are looking to ensure that their pay keeps pace with the rising cost of living. What could be a more moderate demand than “Please can my living standards stand still”?”

What is the point of the Labour Party if it isn’t going to loudly support the rail strikes?

Do you mean “supported by some Labour mps” rather than “Labour led”?

I'm not worried. Life's too short but maybe start a thread about the rail strike if that's what you want to talk about.
So surprised you haven't said 'woke' as well as 'lefty'
You missed a trick there!

So you didn’t bother looking at the answers to that question on this thread then. Literally from the last hour.

Sorry that was for @Callingoccupants

It's what the DM, Schapps and Javid said, so must be true.

Anyway, the fact about 'being full' please.

Just out of curiosity, what is the opposite of being a leftie?