How have the court of appeal allowed the Rwanda thing to go ahead?

[rwandanothanks]

This seems extremely costly, very bad for the climate change challenge in terms of flights and staggeringly lacking in humanity.

How have the court of appeal allowed these flights to go ahead?

I guess if we rewind from the the real question is how and why on earth are our government pushing this awful idea?

Amazing to see how many thick fuckers on Mumsnet believe what the Daily Fail spoon feeds them.

It’s just awful. I’m ashamed to be British.

I also don’t understand why war in Ukraine is deemed to warrant empathy and the offer of support but not war in other countries.

Such bollocks.

I'm wondering where you used to teach? I taught ESOL for many years and I agree that I saw very few illiterate asylum seekers in their own language. And most could manage some English from TV. But I only ever taught one doctor. She was from Iran and she wouldn't be able to practise medicine in this country without doing more quals. Her English was about E3/L1 but at her age she was never going to be able to achieve a 7 in IELTS to enable her to study and practise. I never saw all these professionals, I never met ex asylum seekers at the hospitals where we taught or in my IELTS classes.

I did see mainly young men, educated to their country's secondary standard, occasionally degree level, and the vast majority were economic migrants. I'm not against them coming here. Most are highly motivated to get a better life. (And some are users and the dregs. But that just reflects people in every culture. 🤷) But I just never saw or met this large proportion of professionals in the asylum seeker population.

We may (or may not) owe the rest of the world something, but be realistic it’s not going to happen is it. That would require some kind of massive personality transplant for our political and ruling class, or a revolution, and neither is going to happen anytime soon. Massively increasing migration is on the way. We won’t be able to accommodate them all, genuine asylum seeker or not.

Priti Patel is just pure evil.

The Rwanda scheme is a deterrent. It's not a strategy intended to be used for the tens of thousands of refugees or economic migrants landing every year. People fleeing from persecution can claim asylum in any safe country that they enter, including France, but much to the delight of people smugglers this country is sold as a golden ticket. Clearly, it's not, given how many people are really struggling, not just a bit but genuinely one universal credit payment away from homelessness or choosing between heating and eating. It will not become a successful deterrent against people smuggling and people dying in the Chanel, so the sooner a flight can leave, the better.

@SummerSummerSummertime what hyperbole!

I certainly wouldn’t be risking my children’s life crossing a dangerous stretch of water in a flimsy boat as I was picky about where I wanted to live and didn’t fancy multiple safe European countries.

Yep this 👆in a nutshell. And sad to see how many posters on here love it all. That’s why we have such an appalling prime minister with zero morals, because so many people actually admire that.

The courts work on facts not emotions. Government did everything legally correct so wins case. Most immigrants who apply properly are admitted. They don't need to ride on inflatable dingies to be welcomed. Economic migrants ride on inflatable dingies and risk their own lives and their children's. We have to stop the people traffickers.

@LetitiaLeghorn i think you’ve misunderstood my phrasing (which is my fault, I’m very tired!) A large proportion of asylum seekers are “doctors, lawyers, professors” or “literate and skilled workers”. Not exclusively doctors, lawyers, professors, and remembering that skilled workers can be chefs, mechanics etc. I’m not trying to say that all asylum seekers are rich and successful. I was countering the narrative that all asylum seekers are illiterate and therefore can’t work.

How do you apply properly for asylum from outside of the UK?

@caringcarer If the government did everything correctly, why were so many removed from the flight yesterday after being assessed as not suitable for removal to Rwanda?

That's a very good and interesting point actually. There was a report out last year warning about water scarcity in England with Northampton, Peterborough, Bedford, Cambridge, Ely, London, Brighton, Birmingham, and Leicester all now at high risk of water scarcity within the next decade or two. Presumably you'll be expecting everyone who lives in those areas to just stay put and deal with the effects of drought if/when that is realised? I also assume you'll not be expecting any other country to provide us with food and/or other resources when those fall into short supply too?

These channel crossings need to be stopped.,They don't only put the people in the boats in danger but also the rescuers.

@caringcarer so if the people on the dinghies who enter illegally are economic migrants then why were 75% of all asylum claims successful up to March 22; as presumably the people who you say are economic migrants are actually claiming asylum when they enter the Uk?

When are you going?

I was just checking this thread to see how many of the old tropes would be rolled out about "economic migrants, no space, no need to come here etc" would be rolled out and I got them all in the first page.

You've got to wonder why people who clearly have little understanding on the subject continue to willingly expose themselves as twats instead of using that time to educate themselves a little better.

Putting that aside do people genuinely think sending a tiny % of asylum seekers to Rwanda (at huge cost to us) will deter desperate people, who have lost everything and whose only family/friends/hope are in the UK, from trying to cross the Channel?

Utterly depressing thread.
I guess we've found the Tory voters.
This country is very much not full, and any crisis (housing, NHS, education etc) is solely down to the Tory Govt, not to the small number of immigrants.
In fact since Brexit we are in dire need of more immigrants to plug the employment gap!
We actually take in far less immigrants & asylum seekers that most other EU countries.
fullfact.org/immigration/asylum-seekers-uk-and-europe/
It's truly demoralising to read the RW propaganda about immigrants being parroted out. We really are a selfish, failing nation.

Small number of immigrants?

Because they don't belong here. If they need a safe country, they are in one when in France.

The UN convention on Human Rights does not require asylum seekers to claim asylum in the first "safe" country they reach. There is an EU law which can, in certain circumstances, require asylum seekers to be returned to the first EU country they travelled through. That no longer applies to the UK since Brexit of course. Which is ironic as there is probably a high correlation between people who would like to return refugees to another European country and those who voted for Brexit.

The majority of the people who think this is immoral are those who are less likely to be affected by an influx of illegal immigrants.

This 🖕🏻

Migrants tend to end up in the most disadvantaged neighbourhoods in the UK & people who have no choice but to stay put. Their children end up in school with lots of EAL children. They can't get a GP appointment.

If you're posting saying it's a disgrace I would be interested to know whether you would happily have groups of young migrant men hanging about while your daughter wants to walk to a friends, whether you are ok with the school place you wanted (because it's where you went & your mates kids are going) being allocated last minute to someone who just arrived.

It's a very complex issue & I'm not convinced that the people fighting for the rights of migrants would necessarily do so if it was going to affect them or their children directly.

I do feel sorry however for migrants & despair of continual war which is mostly caused by the west interfering. We do have a moral obligation to help as we are often the reason for war.

^Got it in one.....

Do they "belong" in france? ffs...

...and why should mainland europe have to house all refugees? most of whom are as a result of UK involved wars.

It's a very complex issue & I'm not convinced that the people fighting for the rights of migrants would necessarily do so if it was going to affect them or their children directly.

Of course they wouldn't ! Too busy calling anyone who disagrees them with 'thick twat's' from their ivory towers !!

If we are going to maintain public consent for legal immigration of the highly skilled workers Britain needs, we have to get serious about stopping uncontrolled mass illegal immigration. If the ECHR stands in the way, its jurisdiction must be removed.

@PlanetNormal I suppose it would be good if the Government did something about the hundreds of thousands of people living here, who have remained after their visa's have expired ?