How have the court of appeal allowed the Rwanda thing to go ahead?

[rwandanothanks]

This seems extremely costly, very bad for the climate change challenge in terms of flights and staggeringly lacking in humanity.

How have the court of appeal allowed these flights to go ahead?

I guess if we rewind from the the real question is how and why on earth are our government pushing this awful idea?

@lollipoprainbow I’m guessing you don’t know many asylum seekers or refugees

my family work in immigration and many asylum seekers are incredibly educated and literate

"Come on son, I know your house got destroyed and your relatives killed so you fled to the UK to escape human rights abuses but instead of offering you and we're going tongove you a one way ticket to .... <checks notes> .... a country with a long standing record of human rights abuses. Enjoy!"

Sky news showed the accommodation in Rwanda, it was clean with decent facilities, computer suites, shops etc. People are free to come and go as they wish - it's hardly a prison.

Yes, I'm sure it is.

It's a well known fact that countries with the sort of human rights record that Rwanda treat asylum seekers with unbounded respect and humanity while at the same time murdering and torturing their own population.

Are you really that naïve?

Have them build houses, hospitals, & schools, while their DC train up as doctors & dentists?

Why shouldn't they be able to chose where they claim asylum? Better than a war zone is a pretty low bar!

So you believe in the whole ‘open borders’ thing then presumably? How exactly do you see that working when climate change and global instability creates millions more genuine asylum seekers (by current definitions)? Because that’s what’s coming.

“Anywhere has to be better than where you came from”

so leaving a place with beheadings for a place with torture but no beheadings - yeah that will do it

alright. Just remember that if you ever need asylum or help from others

I believe that people should be able to seek refugee in a country of their choosing. That is different to saying that anyone can move to the UK and be allowed to stay. I think that anyone who wishes to seek asylum here should be allowed to, and if they are found not to qualify, they should be repatriated.
As far as how we ensure that less people are seeking asylum to begin with, I think the developed world owes it to third world countries to provide whatever support we can to mitigate the impact of climate change etc. After all, we (the western world) are the ones who disproportionately caused this instability.

@BewareTheLibrarians sorry your constant drip feeding is not going to change my mind! My daughter has sen so I'm well aware of the lack of funding. Maybe if less money was spent helping migrants she would get a bit more help.

@NotKevinTurvey French people in France aren’t asylum seekers. French people in France are (on the whole, one would hope) treated differently to asylum seekers in France. This shouldn’t be a complicated point.

So, let’s have some reality:

https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/28777/france-police-violence-against-migrants-has-become-the-norm

”Police violence against migrants has "become a norm in terms of making each of these evacuation operations primarily a PR operation," says Professor François Gémenne, a researcher on migration at the University of Liège“

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/06/france-police-harassing-intimidating-and-even-using-violence-against-people-helping-refugees/

Two-and-a-half years after the destruction of the so-called ‘Jungle’ camp, more than 1,200 refugees and migrants, including unaccompanied children, are living in tents and informal camps around Calais and Grande-Synthe. They have no regular access to food, water, sanitation, shelter or legal assistance and are subject to evictions, harassment, and violence at the hands of the police.

https://www.coe.int/en/web/commissioner/-/european-states-must-stand-up-against-pushbacks-and-the-attempt-to-legalise-them

Human rights violations against refugees, asylum seekers and migrants at the borders of Council of Europe member states have proliferated at an alarming rate, especially the denial of access to asylum and returns without individual safeguards, frequently accompanied by brutal violence or even the endangerment of human life. Such practices at borders (often referred to as ‘pushbacks’) undermine legal guarantees clearly established in the Refugee Convention and European Convention on Human Rights.

The government are absolutely correct to be deporting these people, and action is long overdue.
If we are going to maintain public consent for legal immigration of the highly skilled workers Britain needs, we have to get serious about stopping uncontrolled mass illegal immigration. If the ECHR stands in the way, its jurisdiction must be removed.

These cases tend to be against people who are refusing to apply for asylum in France, and who are trying to illegally enter the UK. They would have no problem with police if they followed the correct procedures and applied for asylum there.

You seem to have more sympathy for the criminals here than the poor people having to live amongst the squalor and crime that they bring.

The awful thing about it is that it is culturally and geographically so far from where I imagine most call home and from help or family of any kind (assuming most migrants are from eastern Europe / Middle East). It’s in Sub-saharan Africa and they are effectively stranded there. It’s like when we used to send people to Australia. It is cruel.

If we were still in the EU, we could send back failed Asylum seekers, its funny how we didn't have this problem of cross channel sailings pre Brexit.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen You ve not a shred of evidence they are mostly illiterate and as asylum seekers cannot work or apply to work, we don't know what skills they have or not.
I believe around 90% are given asylum and we are way down the list of countries for accepting refugees

Funny how we don't get angry about 1000s of HK Chinese coming here each week, they aren't fleeing anything at all.

So those who are found to have a claim for asylum can begin to build a life here and those who aren't successful can be sent back home. Every single refugee that I have met actively wants to work, support themselves and contribute to society. Can only be good for the UK.

I don't doubt that incomers want to contribute, and in an ideal world that's what they'd all do and what right-minded person would say no? But there will always be people wanting to come, and we have to control annual numbers pretty carefully or everyone suffers from lack of infrastructure, worsening over time.

You say "unsuccessful" applicants will be returned home. We're an island and can't even stop them getting in, how do we police things once people are already here? What would the criteria be then, and do we know there won't be activists trying to stop those planes?

It seems to me we have established routes/criteria already, and they probably exist to suit the numbers we can accept, and the control we need. People falling outside those routes are now crossing illegally, and the solution seems to be "make it legal for everyone then".

This does nothing to reduce the numbers vs infrastructure issue.

No avoiding the pittance refugees get is not will not help sen support

you should rather blame our corporation tax system, and the absolute corruption of our government

@NotKevinTurvey Governments don’t last forever 😉

Personally I don’t find it that unhinged that governments don’t tend to stop at one (or two, or three) fascist policies, but of course your mileage may vary.

How exactly do you see that working when climate change and global instability creates millions more genuine asylum seekers (by current definitions)? Because that’s what’s coming.

I think this will place new and extra pressures changing what we are used to, we’ve had relative stability but border control may well change as times change

It's all part of the revival of making Britain great again. Restoring the glories of the past. We've already brought back malnutrition and slums, life expectancy is rolling back quite nicely, and now we move on to brown people in chains being taken by force to another continent. Rule Britannia!

Throwing terms like fascist around just suggests you don’t know much of history.

This government is not in any respect fascist.

As far as I know, other than the Ukraine route, there is no way to claim asylum from outside of the UK, so it's cross illegally or nothing.
And you're right, we do need to keep better track of people once they're here and make sure people who's claim is refused are sent back, so let's spend the money on that, instead of sending people to Rwanda.

So the Iranian police commander who refused to shoot protesters and fears for his life in Rwanda should be sent there regardless? (Due to his status, he believes Iran will seek him out)

Or the Afghan interpreter who was due to be deported?

Once this story dies down, Patel will send anyone she can get her hands on, regardless of their story or what happens to them when they get there, it will just pass as "normal" and we will no longer care (not that you ever did)

The UK has almost no legal channels for people to come here from Syria Afghanistan etc.

608,029 people died in the UK in 2020.

10,00 is REALLY not very many people.

Shame on all of you people saying "they don't belong here" - how would you feel if you were living in fear of yours & your kids' lives, to the extent that you had to flee your very own home. Shame on you all!

@SummerSummerSummertime if me or my child were fleeing a war torn country I'd be more than happy with what Rwanda is offering.