Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

I guess the appreciation would come from your spouse or family members.

It's still basic reproduction like we're built to do.

That doesn't mean it's not stressful as it is.

I wonder how many have children as it's expected in the chain of events?
Marriage and children is still seen as the ultimate life goals for women.
When it comes down to it, you're doing it for yourself.

I hear you OP. Yes, having a baby is basic biology, but the skills I use if I'm parenting well: patience, planning, management, sheer bloody graft... it's all the same stuff I get paid for.

The difference is that the all-nighters at the start of my career turned into the 60 hour weeks turned into 120 hour weeks with small children 😄

Yep, same.

Being a mother is a relationship not a job.

@malificent7 that's a massive generalisation

Some children are easier to care for than others, some careers more demanding than others, some parents will find caring easier than working and vice versa

Well of course it's a bog standard thing - most people (and indeed animals) do it and have done since humans have existed. I don't remotely think it should be classed as an achievement comparable with doing well in a career etc. We do it out of instinct to procreate. I can't say I've found it particularly hard (except the actual giving birth bit!) or thankless either tbh. Working has been much harder.

I’m 6 months pregnant and I honestly can’t believe how much stuff I get just for being pregnant/will get for having a child. I actually find it quite overwhelming. Not to derail the thread completely, but the NHS time (including all the dental benefits etc.), the maternity leave, the child benefit I’ll receive, the nursery hours and then just the way society now treats me for just being pregnant! It has really surprised me. I feel like all of society is aimed at parents in a lot of ways

You receive NHS care with or without children. If you break your leg falling off a bike that doesn't mean the health service is aimed at cyclists. Maternity leave is so your child can have a healthy start with the attention and affection they need. The child benefit is... for the benefit of the child. The nursery hours are so you can work and contribute financially to society. You haven't mentioned school so why is part time nursery not ok but school is fine? Most of those things are for the child's benefit - not for yours.

If you're going to be claiming child benefit you're not well off enough for any of those things to not exist. If we don't have children now in 50 years there'll be nobody to provide those services.

It's a privilege, and should be treated as such - you'd be interviewed and have to be skilled for a job/career and be regularly appraised and checked that you were still fit to do the job - so yes it should be treated as a career in that sense. But having a baby no, that's biology.

If you had to study for several years and get qualifications before you were able to have a child, then it would be an achievement.

I absolutely agree.

I see parents not feeding their DCs properly, not caring if they do their homework, not caring if their uniform is properly clean, they have friends, they are well rounded, confident, learn languages/culture, not preparing them for the future.

It is extremely hard work to do properly. Extremely. I have definitely sacrificed my well being for my DD, but I see many put themselves first. Including my STBXH.

But more or less anyone can have a DC!

This is a fabulous post.

It's biology, innit?
Reproduction.

I don’t think having children merits thanks from society. We don’t have children to benefit society, we have them to please ourselves. It would arguably be of more benefit to society if we didn’t have them.

Looking at the long game, it does benefit society for people to have children. I'm pretty sure in some countries with a low birthrate there is a predicted labour shortage when the number of retired people or those needing care will outnumber the working age population.
For the planet its better not to have children.

I do know what you mean OP, when parenting babies and toddlers seems relentless and 24/7 with no holidays, even the hardest jobs have time off sometimes! (I would put parenting children with SEN and disabilities in this category too)

Although I've often seen mums with larger than average sized families referred to as supermum or "amazing" ....when sometimes I'm not sure their parenting skills are any better than my own they've just got more children! And celebrity mum of the year annoys me too because I'm not sure they need an award (or recognition) for doing what everyone else does ...but probably better funded and with extra help/nannies!

I'm sorry that happens to you. Those people are just awful people. The same happens when you haven't got a career though. That happened to me while I was a SAHM before I retrained. People literally blanked me when they asked what I did (treating the answer to that as who I WAS). But it must be particularly hard when it something you really wanted and was cruelly withheld from you.

I think people in general are self congratulatory. It's hard if you're not like that because you want some external validation, probably because you didn't have much growing up. And a lot of people who bleat on here about how speshul they are and how much they benefit others probably aren't and probably don't. I've worked in organisations and an awful lot of people who get to the top are just political and not all that. You only have to look at our politicians to see that.

Lovely post from @ThreeLocusts. You sound really impressive and absolutely fab.

Any idiot can have unprotected sex, and if fertile this can lead to pregnancy, which often leads to birth. So simply being a mum takes no skill whatsoever, it's simple biology, which is why I've never understood why parents are congratulated at the birth of their children.

However, what is an acheivement is to raise a child that becomes a well rounded, well behaved, decent member of society. * Parents who have clearly done a good job deserve congratulations.

*Disclaimer as I know this'll be picked up on...not counting children with any biological issues that may mean poor behaviour is not their fault

Having children isn't an achievement, but raising well behaved, well mannered, educated children is.

According to my mum, the only true recognition you’ll ever get will be from your kids.

A lot of people told my mum she “brought us well” , I suppose they meant we stayed away from trouble, we’re hard working, went to uni etc.

But for my mum, she said the best reward for
all the hardship of being a single parent is having a great relationship with us now and seeing us having a better life than she had. I like to make her happy and treat her to something nice if I can.

For me, looking back, I’m eternally thankful that I’ve always felt loved and supported, and can honestly say I wouldn’t be the person I’m without her.

Raising a child you created is a legal and moral responsibility that only benefits you. Nobody else

I disagree. Raising a child well benefits all of society. It should be valued more, but as it can't be taxed it won't be. Yes, I am cynical.

Yeah, this.
I got pregnant by accident at 20, it wasn't an achievement! Neither was the 2nd pregnancy 4 months after DC1. Or the 3rd a few years later.

My achievements were raising them well (so far, I hope), despite many varied socio-economic challenges and the shadow of my own chaotic childhood and getting an education and career while doing so.

I have children and a career. I have received many complements on how well I raised my kids, I've rarely ever had any for my career, and if I do, it's usually for combining both.

I don't want to be thanked but find the sarcastic comments a bit sour-toned. Why the need? And I don't get how 'it's something everyone does' and simultaneously 'based on extreme luck' to be able to have a child.

And good parenting is not something anyone can do. I think it’s quite rare actually.

YANBU. Society does not value mothers. So much so, the word is being erased from official literature and our vernacular, with the aim to erase it from the collective consciousness. All because it offends (covert and overt) misogynists. Disgraceful!

Thanks for all the comments. I guess I just never realised how hard it is to go through pregnancy / birth and then have small children. I myself underestimated how hard it would be. But it's just noting special.

It's the hardest thing I've ever done and it's all consuming. But it's just nothing special. Almost everyone does it ! I guess I just find that strange to get my head around.