Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

And virtually nobody in the UK raises kids without any external help. Most kids go to school or home school clubs.

@antelopevalley

School. Preschool. Dance classes, karate, guides, brownies, scouts boys brigade, swimming, etc etc

Family help

Friends help

Health care

Libraries

Police

Loads and loads

Yes exactly. Pioneer families in America really did raise kids without any external help. It must have been a tough life, but their idea of childhood was very different.

And all of those people who help raise kids have careers

Who knew?

that was a different PP then, but if you judge others you have no right to complain about others judging you.

@ForestFae

I'm not

My family have always had external help with childcare even if you go back 4 generations. My grandma used a childminder in 1960s Singapore (it was a distant relative that was paid). My grandma's family had a maid too to help with the kids; they lived in a flat above the shop but it was much cheaper to get domestic help in those days and I know it was the case in Victorian England too. On my grandfather's side, his mum was the maid turned concubine so childcare was also done by maids on that side of the family too. Back in China, there were probably maids to do childcare as society was even more unequal then..

I don't see how the modern form of childcare is any different to my predecessors using live in domestic help (in fact at least childcare practitioners today get paid minimum wage). In fact, today's mums do far more because most of us don't get the whole swathe of services that a live in domestic helper would have done though we do have modern appliances to help us i.e. some of us have a childminder but we also work full time and would also do the cooking and cleaning.

What does being a SAHM / WOHM have to do with whether you use schools or libraries? Stranger snd stranger...

Not everyone has family help. We didn't. Not everyone leaves their kids with friends, unless it's sleepovers or they're playing at another house. I never used friends for childcare or vice versa - well, I can't remember ever doing so.

As I said, we never used any 'childcare' - except for an occasional neighbour babysitting once the kids were already in bed. Or my husband's mother on the odd evening di we could go out for dinner or something. Definitely no formal childcare like a day nursery or a nanny. My husband used to be overseas a lot as well.

I'm not saying this makes me a super parent because I'm not. I'm just one that happened to be a SAH one!

Yes all kids go to school at 4/5. What's that got to do with it? School is school. I was talking about the pre-school years.

I was brought up in another country. My mum was always around. All the mums were and the kids used to all play out and go house to house. There was no such thing as nurseries where you could drop babies or pre-schoolers off for the most part of the day. It didn't exist.

I'm in a very different set of circumstances as an adult in the U.K., but where we live most women SAH at least for the ore-school years. And if you have multiple children, this will obviously be quite a few years. After that, most work very flexibly, if at all. It's really not unusual in any shape or form.

I wouldn't say libraries or police or healthcare staff have 'raised' my kids. They don't have a special relationship with librarians or the police!

I think they brought up school because I home educate my kids, but yeah it’s entirely disingenuous to suggest childcare encompasses things like libraries.

@catculture

Its all external help

I'm still not sure what your point is.

We didn't use childcare either

🤷‍♀️

A library is not “help” with childcare. No one else looks after them while there, the parents do it. Or grandparents or whoever has taken the kids to the library.

@ForestFae

What?

I brought up school because they're involved in a big part of kids lives?

Why the fuck would I care if you HE?!

@ForestFae

Now who is being obtuse?

I’m not being obtuse. A library isn’t anything to do with childcare. Me and the other poster were saying SAHMs choosing to be a SAHM and not using external childcare isn’t weird. Using a library is not childcare.

The financial impact of having a SAHP is not as obvious when the child is young. It is more apparent when the kids are older. I am in my 20s now. At least 30-50% of my generation have had financial help with their deposit, depending on which stats you believe. This doesn't even count people like me who lived rent free and bought due to that. Only 25% of the people in my age group are home owners. This is likely to get worse esp for the next generation. I am even considering buying a second flat so that my next generation would not suffer from housing insecurity. I don't think I can do that if we only had one income!

@ForestFae

No.

She said no external help, doing everything on their own.

No one does.

Ever. And wanting to isn't normal or good for kids

And again, I never said using a library was childcare.

I said it was one of the many external things parents use in raising kids

@onthefencesitter

I'm sure stats show sahms are more likely to be in poverty.

Can't afford to work rather than chosing not to.

Oh come off it, she’s talking about raising the kids not saying she lives in a cave never venturing outside. Which you know, hence why I think you’re obtuse and disingenuous.

I think that’s similar for mine, about 20% of people mine and DHs age own a home. Something I think society needs to seriously reconsider, for a variety of reasons, is the multigenerational home.

@ForestFae

I'm talking about raising kids to.

Thats exactly the point. No one does it alone. Not even a sahm. We all use external help

You’re using a very broad definition of “external help” there, classifying things like roads to drive on and libraries to visit as “help”. That is not help with raising kids.

@ForestFae

Sure it is.

Youre ignoring all the direct things I said too.

Is it important to you to think you do it all alone?

No it isn’t. That is nothing to do with “raising” kids.

No. But it’s clearly important to you to try and do what you see as knocking down SAHMs to assuage the guilt you so clearly suffer from.

@ForestFae

Jeeze

Remove libraries if it bothers you that much lol.

Why would saying sahm need and use external help be knocking them down?!!

Its just a fact

I dont feel guilty, what would you think I feel guilty about?

You’re redefining “help” to suit your agenda. If someone says “I have no help with my kids so I can’t do x y or z” do you think they’re saying they have no libraries nearby?

Clearly you do, as you’ve spent this entire thread being a judgemental, unpleasant individual about SAHMs and demanding we justify our choices and lifestyles to you. No one owes you their time and none of us have to answer to you. I really couldn’t give two flying fucks about your horribly misguided opinions.