Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

@catculture

Because you seemed to be implying that it was exclusive to sahms

Yeah, trying to raise kinds with no external help at all does need explaining because its not a good thing

Kids need lots of influences in their lives, not 1 or 2.

I cant imagine my teens being limited to just us. There's no way we could meet all their needs

TopGub - you are interpreting things way too literally.

I'm just saying some mums want to be with their kids in the day, as opposed to a nanny or using a nursery. This is nothing new or shocking. Nor does it mean you don't let your children have contact with the rest of the world! Where do you get these ideas from?

When my kids were pre-school, I was out and about with them every day doing all sorts. Or we had friends over. I was / am a child psychotherapist. I'm hardly going to lock my kids away!

@catculture

They want to do it all themselves without external involvement. They don't need to use childcare services,.

Excuse me for taking what you literally said, literally. I got the idea from what you said

Using preschool is childcare and external involvement

Wanting to be with your kids all day doesn't make you a better parent so I'm not really sure of the relevance of your comments to the topic

Kids do not need childcare, however. It’s fine to use if you want to, but it’s not necessary. How do you think humanity survived before nurseries?!

@ForestFae

They need childcare if they're parents choose to use it.

Its rather frowned upon to send them down mines and up chimneys these days. Or out in the fields 12 hours a day

They don’t need childcare as a necessity though, like food or water or shelter. If someone chooses to use it, that’s fine, but don’t make out it “needs explaining” to raise kids yourself.

Of course they do. Always have.
May not have always been labelled childcare but of course children have been looked after by people other than their mother since time immemorial.

That’s not the same thing as a childcare setting, which often has strict rules and a classroom based system. I have no problem letting relatives watch my kids occasionally, for example. But with nurseries, I’ve inlay ever found one that I’d consider

@ForestFae

Of course kids need childcare

They need cared for. Did you know its theorised that women live past child bearing age because of the role of grandmother's in childcare?

Every parent raises their child themselves
But you're arguing against a point I never made

Lots of children in the past were around their parents while they worked and as soon as they were old enough they worked. So no they did not have any form of childcare.

And it used to be a lot of childcare that was provided was by older girls. Even when I was young this was common and I looked after a child during the school holidays when I was at school.

I’ve heard of that theory before. But by “childcare” it’s very clear I am talking about nurseries and child minders, not parents and grandparents caring for a child - you are being intentionally obtuse.

Being a mum of three was a walk in the park compared to getting Up and going to work every day

I’ve often thought there’s some benefits to children being included in normal daily life - that’s how I raise mine to a degree. Whatever work I’m doing, usually in the garden or some form of cooking, they come with me and do it with me. They always have. A lot of people compartmentalise and give their children “kid stuff” to do, which I think is a strange way of doing it.

I think it is completely the other way around and have sat through many boring social events where people completely ignored me when they found out I did not have children. Or told me my life is meaningless, despite what I have accomplished.

@ForestFae

Nope.

Bringing up great children is a huge undertaking. But you can do an utterly lazy job of parenting and occasionally turn out great kids, or sweat billets over them and still turn out the dregs of society. Because the effort that goes in is not necessarily reflected in the end product, it’s very hard to commend appropriately.

Also, it pretty common, so there’s no scarcity value.

Started reading this thread, and thought net it descends into a bun fight. Skipped to the last ‘page’, and was proved right.

Nope to what? You don’t even meaningfully engage. You just have an axe to grind.

@ForestFae

Nope to being obtuse

Youre arguing against a point I didn't make, I never said kids need nurseries

You said being raised by a SAHM needs explaining. No it doesn’t. It’s perfectly normal.

Agree. I’ve been to multiple legal conferences and Law Soc events where talk has been so dominated by discussion about everyone’s kids that I’ve realised the only words I’ve said in hours are “‘no I don’t have any”.

You’d think a bunch of lawyers would have more than one topic to discuss but nope, it’s all about the reproduction.

@ForestFae

No I didnt

Yeah, trying to raise kinds with no external help at all does need explaining because its not a good thing

you also claimed earlier that you didn’t judge others, that seems to be a lie!

@ForestFae

I definitely didn't say I dont judge others, I really do.

And that is in no way saying being raised by a SAHM needs explaining. It's saying doing it with zero external help needs explaining.

@ForestFae It still happens in family businesses. I have seen it happen. Once children get to about three they can help out in small ways or just be about their parents while they are working. It used to be common in takeaways to see small children playing at the side of the counter or chatting to customers.
I am not romanticising it, but it was only once child labour was banned in places like factories and you had health and safety laws that children started to move out of hanging about workplaces such as factories.
So no childcare was not always a thing except for the very youngest children babies and toddlers. In fact, one of the arguments for compulsory school education was the public concern at gangs of small children roaming about cities and getting into mischief.