Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

It's interesting. DM's friend's daughter has been VERY successful career wise, she earns more than the Prime Minister. However it has been at the expense of her DD's wellbeing. Her DD was regularly left with a housekeeper during her teens as she travelled the world for her job. Her DD is totally messed up and has had years of therapy.

Successful in a job maybe, but successful as a parent, definitely not. Is that irrelevant because she earns £££££.

@whiteroseredrose

Did your friends dd not have a dad?

When you die, people will remember you for the caring you did of them. no-one will remember you for your career, unless you won a Nobel prize or something.

Should we not bother having careers then? 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think as a society we undervalue parenthood compared to some
other countries where parents receive much more support to be parents, rather than being expected to fit it in around earning a wage (although the opposite is of course true; there are many countries where parenthood is much harder). But on a personal level a lot depends on context. As people have said, any fertile couple can get pregnant, but for those struggling with fertility problems just getting pregnant and/or sustaining a pregnancy feels like the most amazing achievement (ten year struggle for me!). Birth itself can feel like one of the most difficult achievements, but then for others be comparatively easy (I said comparatively, doubt anyone would call it easy!). Raising a child - I think anyone who’s done it and/or doing it will realise what a challenge it is, but society isn’t really set up to recognise, celebrate or support that. I think raising a happy, healthy, well adjusted member of society is definitely one hell of an achievement and if I manage it will be my biggest achievement in life…fingers crossed, long way to go yet as mine is only 2. Good luck to us both OP, and everyone else too! 🤣

Not really sure why you’re so determined to make me your arch nemesis or something, I have no idea who you are. Bit weird.

@Fulbe

loads of people will remember me for my career and the difference it made to their lives

ill remember lots of my colleagues for their careers too.

What are you all on about on this thread? Firstly, the OP's question doesn't even make sense because comparing 'motherhood' to 'having a job' is like comparing apples and pears. This is a non-issue. It's certainly not about 'more' or 'less' achievement. Just a different type of achievement. Everything we do in life - whether it's graduating, getting the job we wanted, having children, having a successful relationship, seeing you children happy and successful - I could go on ad infinitum ... all these things are 'achievements' in their own right and things most people will experience, to some degree or another, through the course of a lifetime. Why the need for this weird comparison and how on earth has this become a SAHM v WOHM ska gong match?

And while I'm at it - some people have a very peculiar and twisted understanding about SAHMs. The way some people go on on here, you would think being a SAHM is akin to being in a cult! Being a SAHM is a totally normal and natural thing to do. When did wanting to be around for your OWN children become something that needs justifying??? It's what billions of women worldwide are doing day in day out and have been since time immemorial. Hardly a great rarity or anything that should need explaining. It's basic life.

People don't become SAHMs because of 'outcomes.' They just want to be with their kids in the here and now. What kind of world do we live in when women ate held to task over that??? Bizarrre! Not all women are cut out for it - and that's fine. You don't have to be. Women can do all kinds of things - obviously! But some women , can't imagine any other way. Why would you pay another woman to do what you want to do and what you are best equipped to do? It's the most natural thing in the world and nothing to feel ashamed of. Christ on a bike.

With a career you can get lucky and play the game or a game, you can't do that with kids.

And while I'm at it - some people have a very peculiar and twisted understanding about SAHMs. The way some people go on on here, you would think being a SAHM is akin to being in a cult! Being a SAHM is a totally normal and natural thing to do. When did wanting to be around for your OWN children become something that needs justifying??? It's what billions of women worldwide are doing day in day out and have been since time immemorial. Hardly a great rarity or anything that should need explaining. It's basic life.

They just want to be with their kids in the here and now. What kind of world do we live in when women ate held to task over that??? Bizarrre! Not all women are cut out for it - and that's fine. You don't have to be. Women can do all kinds of things - obviously! But some women , can't imagine any other way. Why would you pay another woman to do what you want to do and what you are best equipped to do? It's the most natural thing in the world and nothing to feel ashamed of. Christ on a bike.

👏🏻

This isn't true at all. I remember the doctor whose timely diagnosis saved my DS, my first manager and mentor to whom i owe much of my career and my piano teacher who sparked my joy in music. Their relationship with me never strayed beyond the boundaries of their profession, but they all changed my life through their work, and I will never forget them.

Well that's simply not true.

I'll fondly remember a few teachers, one boss in particular, some of my colleagues.

in today's world, its very unequal. 1 in 4 families in poverty. But yet there are a lot of families who have very comfortable lives. The disappearing middle class is a real phenomenon. You could have a nice life in the countryside 30 years ago perhaps on a modest income but today, most of the few homes in that idyllic town could easily be airbnb and second homes, and most local families who are not on good incomes would be living in caravans or very insecure private rentals. That is not a nice way to live even if you didn't care about money.

This is why people tell their kids to have a career. It is less about materialism than an existential threat today. There is just so much money out there, often concentrated in the hands of a few people and often if you have too little of it, you would not be able to guarantee yourselves the basics in life in a capitalist society (which is unfortunately the best system we have) because while the best things in life are free, the essentials can be privatized, sold to the highest bidder or completely destroyed (nhs).

Even my driving instructor made a massive difference to my life.

@catculture

Working parents spend time with their kids though

Good points @onthefencesitter

I think there are people who are unaware that the rejection of the capitalist society is a privilege only open to those who have already profited from it. Most working people on low incomes have no choice but to live in urban areas working for 'the man' because there's only enough artisan cheese making and furniture upcycling required, and the beneficiaries of the evils of capitalism have the monopoly.

I may not thank them on their headstones, but I'm very grateful to all the people whose choice to work means I have safe food to eat, clothes to wear, medicine to take, and who've saved the lives of my loved ones etc. If all of them had given up work to raise children, this world would be in a much worse state.

Anyone can have children...... not all parents are good / responsible parents.

A succesful career takes hard work, commitment and dedication. Anyone with a successful career has in all likelihood worked hard and been committed - the same can't be said with all parents!

Some parents do a fantastic job, the same can't be said for all.

Working parents spend time with their kids though

Exactly! People seem to forget that bit......

Raising good people isn’t often celebrated. But it should be.

Just ‘having kids’ isn’t the same as having a successful career, though.

This 💕

Those with SAHPs are not likely to be those in poverty though, surely? As they wouldn’t be able to afford being a SAHP in the first place.

I am lucky in some ways, I managed to buy a house in my twenties (recently, not decades ago) in a semi rural setting. I agree housing insecurity is a threat, but I think once that’s secure, a lot of other things people seek are unnecessary.

"Working parents spend time with their kids though"

Well who said they didn't? Why do you feel the need to state this?

Some families just decide they don't want to use 'daycare' - nannies or nurseries or after school care or whatever. They want to do it all themselves without external involvement. They don't need to use childcare services,. They have zero interest or need for this and having a SAHP seems the obvious and natural choice. No brainier. It's hardly rocket science or something that requires explaining. To many people, it doesn't cross their mind to use childcare, apart from the odd baby sitter or family member occasionally. They don't even think about it.

And obviously, if you can't afford to be a SAHM, then you wouldn't be one would you?

This is how it was for me. It was just a natural thing to do. I find it odd how people ask questions like “oh why don’t they go to preschool?” about DS2 and DD, as if that’s the default option, when to me the most natural thing is to raise them in the family unit. If others don’t want to do it that way, they don’t have to but I don’t get why people think it’s “weird” or needs explaining.