Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

@ForestFae

Why do you have a phone or the Internet?

Its not weird to ask why someone who hates society would want to bring kids into it

I know a few eco types who won't have kids

I wonder if this is about middle-class women who are used to jobs with high status?
Because if you work retail or admin in an office no one praises you or sees what you do as an amazing achievement.

You’d have died if you didn’t have zoom calls? I’ve managed to survive without ever using that infernal video calling hell.

Not me personally as I don't live alone but it was a lifeline for those who do - it was a way for people to keep in touch and will have absolutely saved lives - loneliness and depression kills. Having the ability to stay in contact with friends and family, to be able to see their faces was ( is) a wonderful thing.

It also allowed me to do my job, it allowed me to support my students, it allowed me to teach and meant I could keep in touch with colleagues during a time when were weren't able to meet physically.

Because I get items delivered online (I don’t drive) and I use online resources for home education, like Twinkl for example or the printouts from the Woodland Trust. I don’t actually own a personal mobile phone though.

You don’t have to participate in the parts of society you don’t like. That’s not exactly news (or shouldn’t be).

Surely a regular phone call would be just as good. I detest video calls in general though. The whole Covid situation was badly managed in general though to be honest and I doubt you’d agree with my views on education and teaching either!

@ForestFae

No but its totally hypocritical to say modern society is shit and then use the bits you like

Without Zoom and other online facilities many, many more people would have had to come into work in person to keep businesses and essential services going. Obviously that impacted on spread. It would seem to be a bit ... deliberately obtuse ... not to get that.

No it isn’t, ive said repeatedly that everyone has to live within the system that exists, that doesn’t mean you can’t criticise it or think parts of it could be better. I’ve also said repeatedly that I think we should have built upon what we had in the past, not completely go back to it.

Surely a regular phone call would be just as good. I detest video calls in general though. The whole Covid situation was badly managed in general though to be honest and I doubt you’d agree with my views on education and teaching either!

Why is a phone call okay but a video call not okay? Video calls allow you to see a person which makes it very different to a phone call. Video calls allowed people to socialise in groups via zoom parties and allowed regular activities to carry on. I taught dance classes via zoom and there were band rehearsals, book clubs, quizzes etc. None of which can be done via a phone call.

I'm sure I do have very different views on teaching and education to you, the difference is I'm not going to tell you you're wrong to think/feel the way you do.

Online facilities can exist without zoom. Zoom is a special type of hell. You don’t need to see someone’s face for them to work from home.

@ForestFae

You have to live in the system.

You do not have to get online delivery or use twinkle

They’re massive invasions of privacy in my opinion. The assumption that everyone is just okay with a camera into their homes, for example. I would never. Also classes taught via online are nothing like in person, and could be pre recorded. To actually expect to gain a window of access into someone’s home disturbs me.

Online facilities can exist without zoom. Zoom is a special type of hell. You don’t need to see someone’s face for them to work from home.

Zoom has functionality for presenting, teaching, workshops, interactive meetings that isn't delivered elsewhere. For many things you absolutely do need to see people's faces for effective interaction and communication.

That's not to say I love every aspect of it (I absolutely don't) but we could not have had the lockdowns we did have without its functionality.

I don’t drive, I live rurally. So yes, I do have to have certain items delivered as I physically cannot carry groceries for a family of 5 several miles by myself. 🙄 I also have to provide my kids with a “suitable education” which involved having to write reports and evidence such. You’re being ridiculously obtuse, and you only reply to the point you want to and ignore th rest. I won’t be engaging with you further. I don’t have to justify anything to you and I have the knowledge that my kids have a better life and are raised in an optimal way. Enjoy your materialism, and seeing your kids at the weekend lmao.

They’re massive invasions of privacy in my opinion. The assumption that everyone is just okay with a camera into their homes, for example. I would never
Then don't. Not everyone feels the same way as you do though.

Also classes taught via online are nothing like in person, and could be pre recorded.
Not always. I'm a university academic who taught throughout the pandemic and did a significant amount of research into the pedagogy of online learning. Some sessions could be pre-recorded and it worked well - in fact, i still pre-record some content.

However, it doesn't work for everything. There are some things that require you to interact, learning shouldn't be a passive experience. I now teach a distanced learning course which developed as a result of covid. It turns out that some groups really, really want live, online learning.
There are some aspects of my course that need to be taught 'live' and that works well online as well as in person.
Interestingly, I did so some teaching in person during the pandemic. I quickly discovered that socially distanced, in person teaching is pretty horrendous.

Online was far more preferable.

To actually expect to gain a window of access into someone’s home disturbs me.

I don't expect it. I don't force people to interact with me online, they're there voluntarily!

Enjoy your materialism, and seeing your kids at the weekend lmao.

What a dickish comment. You're not very nice are you?

@ForestFae

Oh dear.

Someone can't cope with their hypocrisy being pointed out eh?

If you really believed modern society was shit you wouldn't engage in any of it

You could get your educational materials from the library. You love being out doors, get yourself a horse and cart

Lmao

🤣

You’re reliant on “the system” and society constantly, in all kinds of largely invisible ways you probably don’t even really think about. The work I and my colleagues do, for example, ensures that if your entire county was wiped out in a hurricane, the insurance company providing cover for your house wouldn’t go bust due to all the liabilities and you’d be able to claim on your policy for a rebuild and to replace all your possessions; it supports the investment which ensures you’ll get a pension in your old age; it allows for innovative organisations to develop the services you clearly rely on – like the digital structure for the online grocery shopping without which you’d apparently be unable to feed your family. Those are just three examples of many things which “the system” offers you.

Without others doing this kind of work, you’d be reliant on having your own savings to rebuild your destroyed house and life, to support yourself in your old age, and to use your own steam to collect food.

Not saying you expected it, it’s the way places like doctors surgeries expect it now without any thought to whether the patient actually wants it - I don’t and won’t use it.

It’s interesting you found online preferable to in person in those circumstances. The pandemic didn’t change much for me as we spend most of our time outdoors as a large family. The only difference was shopping for necessities was more difficult.

And again with the ill informed generalisations. My colleagues and clients who are Deaf and/or have English as a second language, and/or use facial expressions to pick up important communication signals would disagree.

You can use a generic background on Zoom rather than giving anyone a 'window of access'. Just for everyone's information.

I must say, it never bothered me, the only thing visible was a blank wall.

That other poster is constantly demanding I justify myself to them, replying to half of what I’ve said, twisting my words and refusing to evidence their claims, so if they’re going to be a disingenuous arsehole, so will I.

@ForestFae

I havent demanded you justify yourself or twisted your words or replied to half of what you said.

Asking you about your fairly unusual beliefs that you voluntarily discussed isn't that

You haven't evidenced any of your claims either

It’s interesting you found online preferable to in person in those circumstances. The pandemic didn’t change much for me as we spend most of our time outdoors as a large family. The only difference was shopping for necessities was more difficult.

Online meant we could actually communicate effectively. Sitting 2m apart, wearing a mask, in a room where all windows had to be open so we have excessive traffic noise was not great for group discussions.

You can't compare all situations to how you have chosen to live your life. Teaching a university course to large groups of students isn't the same as home-schooling your own kids....and as I was doing both simultaneously, I should know!

You miss my point. I didn’t ask for this kind of system, I didn’t consent to it, I had no choice in it - obviously certain parts of it will benefit me because there are pros and cons to any system. That doesn’t mean I think that on the whole, it’s a good thing.