Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

@ForestFae

Its no moreade up because its modern

That doesn't even make sense

Or does saying people should bring lotss of kids into a society you think is so shit.

It’s more made up because we are more divorced from reality now. The internet is a prime example - none of this is real or tangible. As I said earlier, people are removed from where their food comes from - food is flown across the world so people can eat things out of season, and I bet barely anyone has ever hunted their own meat. I’ve known of kids say “the freezer” when you ask them where vegetables come from… (not mine thankfully!).

ive never said people “should” have kids, I’ve said there’s nothing wrong with having lots of kids if you want them.

@ForestFae

Why did you want kids when society is shit?

Because I can raise them the way I believe is optimal - why would I let society stop me from having kids, it’s not like I’m forced to interact with it in a large part.

Ah, thé naturalistic fallacy. Brilliant.

To a degree yes, but modern society is particularly full of made up social norms and constructs that mean absolutely nothing and are empty, devoid of any connection with nature and the environment, and human development. It’s shit.

Eh? The social norms of previous generations were no less 'made up' than those we have today. Just because YOU think it's shit doesn't mean that it is.

The irony of you using the internet while spouting this Earth Mother rubbish is quite something.

@ForestFae

Of course we all have to interact with society

Youre using the Internet now. You must make money or live off the states money.

Your kids will (hopefully!) Have to interact with society. Make friends who will have different ideals. Make their own way in life

The internet is a prime example - none of this is real or tangible.
And yet, here you are! It can't that shit can it?
The internet literally saved lives during the pandemic - it allowed people to keep in touch with friends and family during a time when we couldn't see them physically.

As I said earlier, people are removed from where their food comes from - food is flown across the world so people can eat things out of season, and I bet barely anyone has ever hunted their own meat. I’ve known of kids say “the freezer” when you ask them where vegetables come from… (not mine thankfully!).

Seriously, how may people want to hunt their own meat? As for not knowing where vegetables come from, well that is an individual parents problem.
I work full time and my child knows where food comes from. We don't have to live the lives of our ancestors to know that!

But surely if we praise every day life, doesn't that just cheapen praise? If we are exhalting people merely for raising the children they chose to have, what is due to people who do this and also make huge contributions to society?
And it's really not all about capitalism either. People work in all sorts of roles that other people depend on and that bring enormous benefit to others.
I'm sorry if it sits badly with people, but, while I might respect them as a person, I simply cannot afford someone admiration for having children in the way I might to a someone who changes, or even saves, lives outside of their immediate family, or demonstrates some other level of exceptionalism.
Not everything deserving of praise, and that's fine, it can still be personally rewarding, which is surely what matters.

I wonder if previously religious and community structures gave more validation for parents efforts? I hesitate to say praise, I don't think that was ever an expectation.

If it’s an achievement does that mean infertile women have failed. Of course it’s not an achievement, it’s evolution.

History would suggest not. Until comparatively recently children have not been given the importance they now have in the collective conscious. In times past, to some extent as late as the 70s, children were largely just 'there' while the business of life went on around them, so its unlikely anyone would even have considered raising them a role in its own right.
The professionalisation of 'parenting' is quite recent. Even the term SAHM is relatively new, from the former 'Housewife' which relects a change in the purpose of being at home rather than in paid work, ie, emphasis now on childcare rather than domestic duties.

History would suggest not. Until comparatively recently children have not been given the importance they now have in the collective conscious. In times past, to some extent as late as the 70s, children were largely just 'there' while the business of life went on around them, so its unlikely anyone would even have considered raising them a role in its own right.

My point is slightly different. Im not saying it was a considered a role in its own right, more that religious leaders may have had the kind of outside investment in it / offered the kind of validation for doing a good job that the OP and other posters seem to be looking for.

It is a disability. It's not up to you to decide. It's a literal disability, for which people are entitled to accommodations. Why don't you educate yourself and stop spouting ignorant nonsense?

Having autism and ADHD costs me a fortune, between not being able to drive and the difficulty in forming relationships meaning I'm single and live alone. Almost every aspect of life is significantly harder and more expensive.

Why would I get an automatic benefit payment if I popped a baby out of my vag, but having a disability I didn't choose means I have to fight for money?

,@pixie5121 your right those things are disabilities however some people can work with ADHD so it depends on the severity of your disability.

It's unfair for you to speak upon child benefit you have no clue it's £20 per week for The FIRST CHILD only. After that it's around £50 odd or something for any other children. What will that buy????

You're right. It's difficult to raise a child to be a good person. No wonder it takes a village...

Ability to work is irrelevant. People with very severe disabilities can work. The idea of disability benefits is to support people with additional costs of their disability, so that (in theory) they are not financially worse off because of it. For example, a person who needs the extra cost of a taxi to their workplace because of restricted mobility/inability to drive shouldn't be worse off than someone who can walk/drive.
As I said, thats the theory. In reality it is hard to demonstrate entitlement with much jumping through hoops required.
While CB is similar in that it's to help with the additional costs of children, I can see why there's some resentment that it's non discretionary when PIP is so tough to claim.

This is brilliant, so true.
So many mums on social media are looking for that praise!
Why do people need it and expect it?
I love being a mum, it doesn't mean anyone else in the world should praise me for it. I chose to have children, the onus is on me to try and do a good job.

You’d have died if you didn’t have zoom calls? I’ve managed to survive without ever using that infernal video calling hell.

You don’t have to at all, but I think humanity as a collective loses a lot by living the way most people do.

I’ve never said everything natural is automatically better than everything invented, in fact I’ve said specifically that we should have built upon the ideals of the past, not simply recreate them. You’re reading what you want because you want to justify a materialist lifestyle.

I have a somewhat unusual perspective on this which highlights why I disagree with the OP.

I'm a child of alcoholic, abusive parents. People you wouldn't leave in charge of a potted plant. My mum reacted to me attempting suicide as a teenager by saying, "you think your life is hard? Try being a mum. If I had my time again I wouldn't have done it."

She still gets all the plaudits associated with motherhood. She gets the mothers day celebrations, the relationship with her other kids, the plaudits from her social circle. Nobody has ever been involved with or questioned her parenting. Those she's told about the fact that I no longer speak to me have reassured her that I'm a selfish, ungrateful cow and she doesn't deserve what I've put her through. People that I've told have told me that she must have tried her best and at least I still have a living mother. She lives a charmed life.

By contrast, I've been in therapy for most of my adult life, in part because I wanted not to repeat the cycle if I was ever fortunate enough to have kids. I've worked my backside off, went to a redbrick university, qualified into law and am now an experienced lawyer. I also have language skills and am an amateur writer. Nobody is interested in any of these things. I receive no recognition for them other than the salary. And that's fine - I don't expect anyone to notice or thank me. But it's not true to say that society recognises me for it. There are no cards, presents, or parties associated with it - by contrast, I must have spent hundreds on my colleagues and friends' maternity leave send-offs, birth announcements and baby showers.

As it turned out, I couldn't have kids (life-saving surgery cost me my reproductive system). So a part of me grieves not just the loss of opportunity, but the loss of having access to the kind of deification that falls on Special Women, such as my mum (despite her being an abusive narcissist and a terrible parent). I've been told that I don't understand love, that I'm not as mature, tolerant, patient or selfless as parents, that my life must be a bit joyless and sad. One particular colleague blurted out that she'd rather have died than lose her reproductive organs. She felt that that was OK to say, because that is the value of the status of Mother.

You don't see it unless you don't have it. Those who have it seem to always complain about lack of recognition, which bemuses me given that I see no end to the benefits of that special status.

Most people do not get praise and are not seen as valuable because of their job. Most jobs are just jobs.

To varying degrees, but you can minimise it and you can choose locations that suit your needs. We live rurally. We don’t interact with the modern world the way some do - my kids know nothing of celebrities or reality TV, they don’t use social media. We don’t have trash TV in our home, we don’t have rubbish magazines, we live a lifestyle that is predominantly outdoor and natural. My children have a wonderful life, and it’s weird to ask me why I wanted to have them when it’s a perfectly normal and natural thing to do.

maybe that’s true for you, which is a bit sad, but it’s not for me.