Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

Agreed. It's a bloody nightmare to try to get help for anything else. I'm autistic - something I struggle with a lot and didn't choose, and I have to jump through so many hoops to get PIP, with the trauma and stress that will come from the likely rejection and need to appeal.

Why don't other people get benefits automatically?

No, having kids is largely luck or want. Lots of people have them who shouldn’t. Lots of people would make excellent parents but can’t. Hopefully if you’ve been a good parent you’ll have your family around you when you’re older and it’ll be all the thanks you need. But who knows.

Kids cost money. That is an absolute given. Whether you are a millionaire, or someone on minimum wage, the kids you have are going to cost you more than if you had not had them. The benefit is for them, not you.

DLA/PIP is not means tested. It is established that having a disability costs money, whether you are a millionaire, or on minimum wage.

But so what?

PIP is almost impossible to get, that's the point. You have to jump through a million hoops and stuff like this is incredibly difficult for neurodiverse people, if not impossible.

If having a child triggers automatic benefit payments (provided you earn under 50K) then why doesn't a diagnosis of autism or ADHD?

Well said and your last paragraph it's pure luck!

Yes it's different for you. If you have been trying for years to have a baby that's obviously very different to someone who is very fertile and has a few kids!

I've read both your points both very interesting. Lol at the poster that veered off talking about large families completely missed the points you both raised.

The UK hasn't always been this way my mum is 80s born she and her sister would take people's babies out and nobody would bat an eye lid.

It's like this today due to lack of community and culture....there's no "villiage" here quite clearly!

7 billion people on the planet, most of them being brought up fine. There's nothing special about being a decent parent. It goes against nature not to be.

They are very different achievements. The reason childcare is so poorly arranged and paid is because society doesn’t see raising children as something special. The pandemic has shown that not giving young children what they need early on does impact them so parenting properly is hard work and an achievement.

A career is a choice and developing a skill that is more specialised so not everyone can do it which means it is valued differently.

Having children is expensive so if you can’t afford them don’t have them like any life choice!

That's the whole point. It's not the child who made the live choice to be born. Same reason mothers are entitled to maintenance from the dad.

Even if you have a baby through IVF it is pure luck. Consider two couples, couple A and B both going through IVF. Couple A have a baby after 4 attempts. Couple B do not. The only difference between the two couples is that couple A got lucky.

No, there’s an income cap. If you earn more than £50,000 you don’t get anything.

You think admin and middle management are “made up” jobs. That’s just ignorant.

It’s factual. Money is also made up. It’s a social construct that we all collectively agree to give value to. Not sure why you’re disagreeing with this.

Because it’s not a disability and not something that you need money for.

ADHD makes your life significantly more expensive

Well then so are all jobs, and your point was facile.

A lot of jobs are made up, yes. They were just two examples, not the only jobs I was talking about. The whole structure of modern society is socially constructed bullshit

@ForestFae

Every society is socially constructed

Its kind of the point of a society.

All jobs are 'made up'.

We need to eat, have shelter, keep warm, reproduce. Other animals achieve this either all by themselves (with the exception of mating obviously) or by working in small groups for the good of the group.

The latter is how humans were, and the other hominids.

Over time the groups grew larger and people began to specialise, each contributing to the group in order to gain from the group.

Carry on down that road and we have houses, hospitals, doctors, farmers, road sweepers, lawyers etc etc.

It's all 'made up'. A result of our development as a species.

I don't see many chimps performing surgery, completing tax returns or filing letters.

Well then so are all jobs, and your point was facile.

Exactly. I completely agree. All jobs were made up at some point.
It is incredibly ignorant and arrogant to make a judgement on someone's job just because you personally don't understand it or see the point of it.

I honestly don't know what people expect. If you want children and you manage to have them, you've got what you want. Why on earth does everyone need to stand around heaping praise on you for it?
Looking after children you choose to have is the default, not an amazing achievement in the eyes of anyone, except potentially your own family.
If you went into parenthood expecting the world to think you were fabulous, you really should have looked into it a bit more first. Then you may have chosen not to take on a role in which you feel undervalued, and instead make a contribution that society would see as praiseworthy. Or even do both, like huge numbers of other women.
What you can't do is make a life choice because you want to, and then insist that other people admire you for it, as admiration must be earned.

👏👏👏

I hear you OP. Such is the capitalist society we live in. If you ran a nursery and built it up from scratch you’d be applauded but getting through the grind of day in day out parenting to raise rounded kids, happy in the 21st century, nah no one will give you plaudits for that, as clearly demonstrated on here. Everyone projects their own judgement into others in a kind of ‘we’ve all done it so it’s nothing special’ kind of way.
It’s a weird juxtaposition, in a news article if there has been a tragedy, a person will be described as a mother/father of 2 in hushed and hallowed tones basically implying that this is important. You don’t get the same hallowed tones for a career person.
Parenting is hard OP and I applaud you

To a degree yes, but modern society is particularly full of made up social norms and constructs that mean absolutely nothing and are empty, devoid of any connection with nature and the environment, and human development. It’s shit.