Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

@ForestFae

Yes, it does.

There is a direct link between women having lots of children and societies being less equal

More kids = less likely to work

I still find it frustrating that people get paid to have children like it’s an achievement (child benefit). If people want to have children then they should be able to afford them when they make that choice. I’m not talking about benefits that are needed for people in need of them, but being paid because you’ve procreated seems v old fashioned.

Correlation doesn’t equal causation, causation has not been proven there. And you’ve shown with that you are suggested equal means career, rather than access to healthcare as you suggested.

@ForestFae

Thats because we need women to be involved in all those things in order to have equality

Having children doesn’t inhibit your access to those things.

Yes it does.

No, we need women to have the choice about what they wish to do. We do not need to have certain numbers of women in certain fields unless they actively want to be and choose to be. We do need everyone of every gender to understand correlation and causation though.

No it doesn’t.

@ForestFae

Have you read the research?

Why wouldnt women want to be in all fields?

@ForestFae

You're contradicting yourself.

You're saying women don't want to work, they want to stay home with the kids and saying having kids doesn't limit women's choices

So which is it?

I’ve read what it is I think you’re referring to, yes.

Because not every woman wants what you want. Why is that hard for you to comprehend?

How is it limiting their choices if they are choosing to do that? You’re holding work, which is exploitative, up as some panacea of liberation. It’s weird and bootlicking.

Can you provide me with evidence?

I research and write about this for a living so I'd be really interested if you've found some research which shows that women are not disadvantaged across all sections of society and that these disadvantages aren't amplified once they have children.

Source your claim. Source your claim that having children inherently limits your access to healthcare and abortion, like a PP claimed.

@Evans83

Erm people don’t “get paid to have children”.

Money is provided for children where the parent can’t afford to feed/ clothe them etc themselves in order for the child to have a basic standard of life. That’s a pretty important distinction.

How is it limiting their choices if they are choosing to do that? You’re holding work, which is exploitative, up as some panacea of liberation. It’s weird and bootlicking.

You talked earlier about socialisation and societal expectations... maybe you should look at that in relation to woman's choices around education and careers.

@ForestFae

OK, what did the research say?

How did you read it and decide that family size wasn't a factor when that was the conclusion?

Why have children if you can't afford them?
Oh but you can afford them, if benefits will help out.

Link to what specific study you’re referencing please. If it’s what I think it is, and it’s about how women choose to have less children when there’s access to contraception, that’s more about the sort of society they live in which is oppressive to women and not having children that directly causes the oppression.

But it would be fantastic if you’d link the specific study you’re talking about so we can make sure we’re all on the same page and have a sensible discussion.

Ah yes, the enlightened choose careers and the rest of us suffer from internalised misogyny and can’t make our own choices, is that right? 🤣

@ForestFae

My comprehension is fine. Not every woman wants what you want either. In fact not very many do at all.

Work is not always exploitative.

You have a very odd view of work

And you have an odd view of family life.

Happy to provide specific references when I'm back at my desk but it doesn't take a genius to understand that if women are underrepresented in senior positions across society then their rights and access to things like healthcare and abortion will be impacted.
And why are women underrepresented in senior positions? This is mainly due to societal expectations around childcare responsibilities.

Did I say that?
However there is a significant amount of evidence to support the fact that womens education and career choices are significantly impacted by societal expectations around childcare responsibilities.

@ForestFae

I cant find the one I read. But it was very clear that the more children women had the less equal society was

How do I have an odd view of family life?

Exactly @brookstar