Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

Of all the things that humanity had in the past that could’ve been positive, you picked that out as what you thought I was going for?

Exactly this.

I would have to disagree with posters saying that anyone can do it with regards to being a parent. Making a baby isn't an achievement but being a hood parent is.

Clearly not anyone can do it otherwise there wouldn't be so many children in the care system and on the child protection register, there wouldn't be so many messed up adults as a result of their upbringing.

It's not a competition between parents and childless people with careers 🤷‍♀️

It’s easier if you do it with both parents together.

What I think I was trying to say is that my mother has no input into my life after id started school. Whilst she may have taken the praise when I learned to read, pass exams with top grades etc, the fact is, it was all from me and my fabulous teachers than her.
My teachers put in the hard work to get me to university and I put in the hard work after that.
My mother, no doubt, enjoyed the praise and the well donee that ca,e her way if someone complimented me on my achievements, but ultimately. They were in spite of her, not because of her.

I don’t think even you know what you are going for. It seems some sort of general hippy ideal, which is never well thought-out, as shown by your bizarre idea that admin jobs are “made up”.

To go back to that example, would you have expected your surgeon to have ordered all his own equipment, scheduled the theatre, arranged his own pay and so on?

Having a child is not a unique and special achievement. It's extremely commonplace. Raising happy decent adults is an achievement, and your reward for this comes from watching them live their lives and the pleasure of your ongoing relationship with them. What more could you want?

Of course you are but modern society as it is is a scourge and I wish more could see that.

Maybe people just don't agree with you 🤷🏼‍♀️

lol, you know nothing about how well thought out or not it is. My views are based on years of research and analysis.

No, because the society we live in is structured the way it is, so obviously I would expect a surgeon in our current society to use the systems in our current society.

Surely it's all relative to the person. Someone could have the most amazing career but not able to biologically have children.

It also depends how you value things yourself. For me personally, having children has been the most amazing blessing and personal achievement. I have a job (teacher), I don't even use the word career. It was a big part of my life before children but much less so now and for me, that's OK. My job is for money to provide for my family, to teach/help/care for children in all aspects of education and there is a sense of personal fulfillment from this too as well as the social aspect of work. However, I do not do this for how I'm viewed by others - why should that matter? Being secure in your choice is what matters, whether that's a career or sahp.

Also, so many people have commented that anyone can have children. I think this is quite flippant and insensitive really as we all know that isn't the case.

Of course they don’t, because most people are socialised from birth into a materialistic way of being and then school teaches from an early age to conform and join the system. “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society”

@Beautifulbluesky Actually, making a baby can be an achievement for some people. For anyone who's gone through fertility issues or physical/mental health problems, and has then 'achieved' pregnancy, I would say, that's a great success in life.

Yes, I think it’s rather thoughtless to say it’s not an achievement to have kids given the struggles some people have.

Actually, making a baby can be an achievement for some people. For anyone who's gone through fertility issues or physical/mental health problems, and has then 'achieved' pregnancy, I would say, that's a great success in life.

But do you then expect everyone to praise, thank and grovel at your for doing that which is what the OP suggests.

There's such a strange expectation for people other than the parents and immediate family to fall over the mother when actually most people just don't care that much.

I was responding really to the posters saying that anyone can make a baby. Obviously not everyone can, easily. A lot of that is down to luck.

But how you raise them, and doing a good job of it can be an achievement. It's an important job.

Its still not an achievement, as people are able or unable to have children due to an accident of health/biology. I don't really care for framing it as something praiseworthy as 'achievement' implies, as the other side of this is that people not fortunate enough to have children have 'failed'.

Of course not everyone can have children as we all know, but describing a biological function as an “achievement” is clearly nonsense.

No it doesn’t. Someone getting an achievement in something doesn’t mean everyone who doesn’t has failed some sort of invisible test. This is the problem, too many people take someone else’s choices nd achievements as an attack on others. It’s not.

Well you can bet your boots that if having babies was something men did, it would be an achievement then. The height of achievement in fact.

Not by misogynists.

I think you’re living in a parallel universe if you think women with careers are seen more favourably by society than women who have children.

Funny how the thread went from raising kids to exclusively discussing motherhood like kids don't have 2 parents or a host of other people involved with raising kids

Raising kids is an achievement bit so is having a career.

Its also possible to do both

You dont have to be a sahp to raise kids

Most people manage both absolutely fine

Double achievement!

Ok think you’ll find that anything that is fine predominantly by women is not valued.

Because when we choose to have kids then it’s our duty/responsibility to bring them up well, which is why I think parents shouldn’t receive special recognition or thanks for the task! It should be viewed as the minimum requirement of being a parent. I think if anything, as a society we are too forgiving/passive to the consequences of children who aren’t bought up good parents.

But surely you can see that this is an indulgent lifestyle, only possible because of other people's hard work in their careers?

Presumably your partner or someone else is working so that you can pay rent or mortgage and bills? You've availed of NHS healthcare? Used midwives and hospital resources when having your children? You use roads that were built by others and are maintained by others? Eat food from supermarkets that's been grown, picked or slaughtered by others, packaged by others, shelved by others? If you have an accident at home, you can pick up a phone that was made by someone to call a 999 call centre staffed by people to have an ambulance driven by someone to take you to a hospital with doctors and nurses who can help you? You're posting here on a phone or computer designed and manufactured by a bunch of people, using an internet connection set up by someone else, using a phone line that needs to be maintained?

If everyone did what you do, your life would be a lot harder than it is. Your lifestyle is only possible because others have chosen a lifestyle you look down on.

@pixie5121

Well said!