Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

Yeah women should all remain in the home and never think about having a career. Have I got that right?

You've answered your own question in the OP.

Anybody and everybody (barring the infertile) can reproduce. It's not exactly an achievement - more a basic biological function that every living organism on the planet does in order to perpetuate their species.

I never said just women did I? @Vecna said it a few posts back, society is incredibly consumer focused.

Ok, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I fundamentally disagree with both of those statements. A large proportion of working-class parents have always worked. In early human societies everyone did their bit. And society is a lot more child-centred than it has ever been.

I was about to say this. The concept of having a parent at home solely to take care of a child/children is relatively recent, particularly in working class communities.

As for 'made up jobs' (a phrase that deserves an eye roll) well, that's just being ignorant to the way society has developed and changed over time. And it's really insulting to describe someone's job or career in this way..... like it's worthless.

Because anyone can have a kid
And not all of us are smart enough or driven enough for an impressive career

I agree being a parent is HARD work. But it isnot an achievement . Its just nature.

MN is incredibly career focused, I’ve no idea why..

Why not? Why is it wrong for women to be career focussed? It's a good thing!

But those jobs aren’t “made up”, they are carrying out a necessary function.

I’m talking about traditional societal structures, centuries ago, not the nuclear family of the 1950s…

Yesterday I was at an outdoor musical event with a toddler who was entranced by the music.We sat near a family with two lovely children aged approx 8 and 10 yrs. They were so polite and so tolerant of the child, wanted to know all about her and went out of their way to introduce themselves which was something we hadn't had the time or manners to do. They really were a credit to the parents and I know we don't acknowledge this often enough.

i don’t think it’s a good thing for anyone to be overly career focused, whatever their gender.

A lot of it isn’t necessary though, we’ve just structured our society in a way that makes us believe that.

@ForestFae The majority of posters on MN are women(based on the posts I’ve read over the years), with the odd man posting(they normally identify themselves as well). So by saying MN is very career focused, you mean “women” are very career focused don’t you?

Do you think you or your children would be alive today if you’d relied on being a hunter-gatherer, and given birth without the medical infrastructure that modern living has made available?

I don’t agree with you on this. It seems to me there is a very high amount of stay at home mums on here, in proportion to the real world. What women purport is being financially secure and independent is invaluable. This doesn’t mean parenting isn’t valued. Most of us manage both.

your Words are also confusing. You say having a child was your biggest achievement, is that really what you mean? Simoly having sex and giving birth is your biggest achievement? Was there fertility issues? Or is it parenting your child that you mean?

Having a child was not my biggest achievement. For that I simply had a shag. Raising a wonderful kind loving human is my biggest achievement but much of that is also to do with who my child is. I can only claim a tiny part of the credit. Who she is is down to her.

is there bitterness in your words? Are you not financially secure and independent and smarting about it?

Just because the majority of posters here are women doesn’t mean they’re representative of women in general.

No - I need cesareans to give birth. But what I’m saying is as a society, we have progressed the “wrong” way. I’m not saying we should never have developed technology, it’s not a case of either or, what I am saying is we’ve lost the things that were good about society in the past and added things that are less beneficial - when we could have kept the positives and built on them.

i don’t think it’s a good thing for anyone to be overly career focused, whatever their gender.

Well, we'd be screwed as a society if nobody was focussed on their career. We need doctors, nurses, teachers etc and we need them to be career focussed.

I think raising your children successfully whole having to work to provide for them is a difficult task but millions of women have to do that without any choice in the matter. Some single parents are the only ones providing for their children. Hats off to those who manage it.

For me personally, successfully raising children includes teaching them the value of work and the importance of financial independence. In an ideal world, the best set-up for me would be both parents working part-time but life doesn't always allow for that.

I’m talking about traditional societal structures, centuries ago, not the nuclear family of the 1950s…

I couldn't think of anything worse. I'll stick with modern society thanks.

What is a made up job anyway? Who decides what is a necessary job? How do you define that?

Validation in society is parcelled out based on key aims that suit society. In times when the population levels are under threat then idealised narratives of mothering and motherhood abound, in times when work productivity is the key aim, the activity and value of mothering is impoverished and paid employment is considered the gold standard of a life well lived. Give it thirty years, when population levels are in peril, prepare for another resurgence in the romanticized value in procreation and raising children.

In the meantime, I'd recommend looking inward for assessing the value in what you do and take pride in those things which you value the most. Treat the opinions of those around you and the grand stories we tell ourselves in the media about what counts as a worthwhile life purpose. Their validation is often just an indicator of your compliance.

I've got a successful career and am raising a child on my own. Motherhood is far and away the harder of the two. In fact parenting is so hard, I often wonder why so many people do it!

To a random person, what you’ve invested in your children isn’t necessarily obvious because it’s largely personal and private, so they don’t know how to judge it. I don’t think the praise of society or social standing is the goal.

If you parent well, you will be praised by your children as they get older and recognise how much you’ve sacrificed and given to them. You’ll also likely get recognition from all the people that love/are loved by your children in the future: their friends, spouse, children, etc.

Treat the opinions of those around you and the grand stories we tell ourselves in the media about what counts as a worthwhile life purpose...with suspicion.

from the opposite end:

it’s actually pretty fucking awful when you are seen as someone else’s “achievement”.

If we start valuing parenting the same way as we do employment, children become a product, and success will be measured on what your child achieves.

so is someone who’s child is top of their class a “better” parent that the kid at the bottom? Or is that the child's achievement that they should be credited for?

parenting is part of my life. It isn’t my life, same as my kids lives are theirs to live as they please, not with one eye on how it makes me look.