To ask if Co-Ed is better than single sex..

[CHiSOCG]

For girls? My DH is keen on Co-Ed. Most of my friends are looking at local single sex grammar or independent. Of course most will go co-ed comprehensive if they don’t pass the 11+ for the grammar.

@Divebar2021

Won't she be at risk in sports and hobbies too?

@Topgub

well clearly potential yes. We’ll do the risk assessment nearer the time.

@Divebar2021

How will you risk assess?

I went to Co-ed schools throughout, and dearly wish I had had the chance to go to a single sex girls school. I knew that at the time, and pleaded with my parents. But the only single sex option was an extremely expensive private school two towns away, which was out of the question. All the local and state schools were mixed.
Most people don't have a choice these days. But given a choice, I'd have loved to go to a girls school. I was (still am) extremely sensitive, and would have been better suited to it. I know I'd have done better academically, and had a better life. But that's just me. Others might suit Co-ed better. It's never a one size fits all.
I still feel sad about my rubbish education though 😔

@Topgub

Both myself and my DH are police officers… I worked in child abuse investigation for 8 years so I’m pretty good at risk assessments. (Although to be fair so are lots of people.) I want my DD to have a broad range of experiences not stifle her so I’m always trying to find ways to make things happen for her.

Best not do anything ever then. Life will take its course and girls will be harassed everywhere they go without respite and that's all fine.

@PleasantBirthday

Its not fine. Its horrific.

Which is the point I'm making.

A few parents choosing ss for their girls won't help.

It won't help address the problem.

Ss boys schools will make it worse.

Why should girls in mixed schools be sacrificed to it?

Totally different. It's much easier for the organisers of extra curricular sports and hobbies to discipline or permanently exclude a child who is causing problems.

Same in the workplace.

It's classrooms that are the problem. So I'm happy my dd isn't in one. If you're happy with your mixed, great, I'm glad it works for you.

Just to be clear, it's not a private school, some areas do still have single sex, state schools.

They shouldn't. But it's not the fault of the parents of girls. I have a girl, she will be going to a single sex school. It's literally all I can do. I can't bring my sons up differently, I haven't got any. I also can't bring anyone else's sons up. All I can do for my daughter is try to protect her from the excesses of some teenage boy's behaviour at a crucial time in her life.

If you think that I wouldn't change the culture around this if I could, you're completely wrong. I am not opting out because I refuse to fix this, despite being omnipotent. I'm opting out because it's literally the best choice I can make for the child for whom I can make any choice.

@GabriellaMontez

Yes I'm happy with both kids school.

I've thankfully not encountered these issues yet.

I dont view all teen boys as a risk

Did someone here say they view all teen boys as a risk? I really hope not.

That would be as ridiculous as refusing to recognise that some schools have serious issues with behaviour.

@GabriellaMontez

Someone said they would risk assessment their dd being in contact with boys, yes.

No one has denied that lots of schools have serious issues with behaviour that I can see.

Even ss schools can have serious issues with behaviour

Lots of PE ss schools are awful for drug use and bullying

@Topgub

Youre misrepresenting what I said. My comment was in relation to the concern that girls and boys in SS wouldn’t know how to engage with the opposite sex. You challenged the comment I made about her mixing with boys in extra curricular activities. My risk assessment comment is not the same as thinking every boy is a risk. Parents “risk assess” all the time although they may not use that term.

@Divebar2021

What are you risk assessing then?

In the context of boys being at sports and hobbies

All this thread has really established is that there are wildly different experiences of both single sex and mixed sex schools. So much depends on the strength of the HT and SLT in both the culture they promote and the support they give their staff to stamp out any instances of sexual harassment or bullying by the pupils, boys or girls.

I am theoretically totally behind mixed schooling, but can also see why some mothers are wary of it, given some of the horror stories. FWIW DD2 had no issues at her secondary modern, which wasn't a great school academically but had a very strong, no-nonsense HT. I also acknowledge that DD2 is a feisty, independent soul who doesn't really do 'drama', she just steps away from it. I don't think the answer is just to tell girls that they need to be more robust, they need to know that any concerns they have are listened to and taken seriously rather than dismissed. Excusing unacceptable behaviour by saying 'that's boys for you' doesn't do anyone any favours, girls or boys.

DS went to a boys' school – has that caused issues in his later relationships with girls and women as some claim it might? I don't think I would go that far, but his friendship group was inevitably male. If he didn't have sisters I might have been more concerned.

Totally agree @thing47 , it’s so clear how much variation there is depending on where you live.
I went to an inner city co-ed state school and my first experience of sexual harassment was by grown men on public transport, and not at school in the slightest.

Some replies feel slightly scare mongering - we clearly had separate toilets and changing rooms for PE and had the option to do mixed or separate PE lessons (which maybe was unique).

Where I grew up the private same sex schools were full of eating disorders, class A drugs, and had a reputation of being easy shags for the local boys schools. That could obviously be confounded by the addition privilege/entitlement of being private).

I’ve got 3 STEM degrees and work in a heavily male dominated sector and although co-ed isn’t for everyone, I did learn very early on in my education how to get my voice heard over men and I also think it made me incredibly competitive as I refused to be let boys beat me in the sciences/maths, which has served me well. Personally I think I would have really struggled in a girls only environment, and I think any head strong nature would have been worn down by trying to fit in.

Obviously most of us went through school without social media as it is today, but I’d be delighted if a daughter of mine had the school experience I did.

It's not most.

It completely dependent on where you live.

If you live where I grew up, where my DP grew up or where I live now then there are state non-selective single sex schools.

I know areas with grammar schools still have many single sex state schools. Also fairly common in inner cities. But apparently only 12% of secondary schools, UK wide, are single sex. So the vast majority attend co-ed, and have no choice. The areas you describe are surely very much in the minority? Everyone should be given a choice in my view...

I went to a single sex grammar. Reading about the endemic levels of sexual harassment and assault in co-ed schools, I’m very glad my parents made that choice. Co-ed is good for boys because girls bring them up but it’s bad for girls with sexual harassment dragging them down at too early an age.

The very fabric of modern society is unnatural. If unnaturalness were the problem, people would be living in caves

The opposite sex is a distraction and harmful influence. Children and teenagers in co-ed schools are more likely to engage in performative displays of masculinity or femininity at the expense of their education

In contrast, single-sex schools are a refuge from societal pressures. Girls and boys get to focus on their academic growth without the added burden of impressing the opposite sex

"Learning about life/how to work with different people" can be achieved through extracurricular activities, social events, and community engagement outside of the school environment

Instilling in young minds the twisted belief that they should "enjoy" spending time with the opposite sex is an unwarranted and detrimental approach to development. From my experience, I prefer not to interact socially with those of the opposite sex. Separate societies for men and women would have been a dream come true. I'm of the strong belief that educational institutions should instead concentrate on promoting intellectual development and strengthening bonds between members of the same sex

Your experiences don't reflect those of the majority of girls

Having experienced verbal harassment from male classmates and faculty, I was "worn down by trying to fit in" a co-ed school. My academic success and self-confidence only flourished in a girls' school

To claim that preferring single-sex education equates to weakness is dismissive and insensitive. How would you feel if the roles were reversed and your alleged "struggles" in single-sex environments were used as a basis to label you weak?

Whilst I agree with your point I'm not sure if you noticed this is a zombie from two years ago?

I deliberately haven't read the responses because I wanted to give my unbiased opinion - hope that's OK!

It depends on the child (what a surprise!) but for my academic son we chose an all-boys grammar and he was in heaven. We looked round all the local schools - without telling him our own views - but the scruffy, paint-flaking boys' grammar stood out as being right for him. It had a brisk, competitive feel where it would be OK to be a hard-working achiever and eccentricities were tolerated. He thrived there, and they had some girls in the sixth form which was great.

I really do think that for academic purposes, single-sex is best. It's less distracting! Neither of my kids ever bothered about messing with their hair or hitching up their skirts etc at their single-sex schools, but I know the pressure to appeal to the opposite sex at co-eds can be oppressive.

I went to an all-girls' grammar and I just loved it. It was exciting when we got together with the boys' school for some things, but I liked not having to have boys around when I was trying to focus on lessons!

(This is just my view based on my children and my experience. I'm not laying down the law for other people...)

I think you need to look at the individual schools you have a good chance of getting in to. Some single sex schools are fantastic, some are awful. Some coed schools are fantastic, some are awful.

Most of the research on the impact of single sex schooling is poor (as in there are few studies that are rigorous enough to have much confidence in their findings). The better studies (e.g. the ones that take account of factors like parental wealth, selection, parental education etc.) tend not to find significant differences even in maths and science performance. So the impact of other factors on your DD’s education is likely to be far more significant than whether she goes to a single sex or coed school.

In the UK single sex schools are likely to be correlated with other factors that improve outcomes so may well be where you end up, but look at the schools individually and think about how your DD would fit in and be served by what they offer.