To ask if Co-Ed is better than single sex..

[CHiSOCG]

For girls? My DH is keen on Co-Ed. Most of my friends are looking at local single sex grammar or independent. Of course most will go co-ed comprehensive if they don’t pass the 11+ for the grammar.

@RenegadeMatron

No, if people want to choose ss they should

But they shouldn't pretend its helping the problem

If there were more single sex schools, so that more people could choose them, it would absolutely help girls to be able to learn in an environment away from continual low (and high) level sexual assault.

As we can see from this thread though - not everyone wants that.

@RenegadeMatron

It only helps that small proportion for that time they are in school. And only those girls

And if we increase ss girls school we have to increase ss boys schools

Making the overall problem worse

So let’s doing nothing then, and race to the bottom.

In my city, there are:

• six single sex girls’ schools
• three single sex boys’ schools
• two co-ed schools (one of which my DS goes to, and which was single sex (boys) up until three years ago).

The demand here is for single sex. Because it allows girls to learn in an environment that is set up for them, and enables them to do well without the low level stuff that goes on in mixed schools and the world.

It doesn’t fix the problem - but it absolutely gives girls a respite from it while they’re young and engaging in the small matter of learning.

And the co-ed schools are there for those who’d prefer them.

@RenegadeMatron

Who said anything about a race to the bottom?

In my country there are no state ss schools and iirc only 2 private ones

Ss is not to the answer to male sexual harassment

Unfortunately

I cant say that I've heard any of my peers discussing sexual harassment of their daughters during school hours being a huge issue.

Did you miss the whole 'Everyone's Invited' thing? Maybe check out the website - it's full of victins of rape and sexual assault telling their stories. Mostly girls who were assaulted in schools. As for misogynistic language and sexual harrassment- that is utterly commonplace in schools.

Because either all girls have access to safe schools (whether through changing the way we socialise boys or through SS education) or none do. It isn't acceptable for some to have the option but not others. And it will always be those who do not have money who get hit - because moving to a suitable area is also about having money

So... because not all girls can go to a ss school (and indeed many don't want to), you think nobody should be allowed to? Not even girls whose local comprehensive is ss and therefore doesn't require them to have money? Sorry, but we can only work with the system we have. Everyone is entitled to do their best for their children by sending them to the school which best suits their needs. Societal change takes a long time. So does changing the school system. You can't expect parents to deliberately choose not to send their children to the school they think will be best for them!

Ss is not to the answer to male sexual harassment

It absolutely IS the answer to avoiding it while at school - and learning.

Fortunately.

@RenegadeMatron

Its clearly not.

It helps a select few only.

"Did you miss the whole 'Everyone's Invited' thing? Maybe check out the website - it's full of victins of rape and sexual assault telling their stories. Mostly girls who were assaulted in schools. As for misogynistic language and sexual harrassment- that is utterly commonplace in schools.'

But this poster was talking about her own experience. Are you saying that because of the existence of Everyone's Invited, nobody should be able to report that their own experience is different from that?

@Fairislefandango

Yes, I must have missed it, I've not heard of it.

I'm not sure how it would change my own experience either?

I'm not denying it's an issue. It clearly is. But it needs addressed on a societal level in a way that actually tackles it.

Especially for the girls who's parents can't by their way out of it for a few hours a day.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree.

It absolutely is the answer for those girls who go to single sex schools.

It just is.

Out of interest, do you think that those of us who have the choice to send our daughters to a SS school but actively choose not to, are doing them a grave disservice?

@RenegadeMatron

Whatever you need yo tell yourself

Kairoun personally yes. But just my subjective opinion

It only helps that small proportion for that time they are in school.

And protecting children while they are in school is a bad thing? Is it not pretty normal to protect children against things which they will have to deal with when they are adults?

I find it a bit odd that we are being told that ss doesn't work and doesn't fix things by someone who admits they have no actual personal knowledge or experience of it since it effectively doesn't exist in their country. I went to a mixed primary and junior school and a girls' secondary school and have taught in girls' schools, boys' schools and many mixed schools. I think I've got a fairly good idea of the advantages and disadvantages compared with the average person tbh.

@Fairislefandango

I never said it was a bad thing for those particular children. But why would you be ok with the 'solution' only being available to a select few?

What did you do to tackle the issue when you taught in boys schools and mixed schools?

It’s none of my business.

If you choose to send your DD to mixed, then you’re doing it for your own good reasons.

I’m really only genuinely interested in my DD. I’m making choices based on my own experiences, and what I believe will be best for her.

There are plenty of people on here who actively choose mixed. Fair play - it’s a free world, and we make our own decisions.

I have good friends who’ve sent their DDs to mixed. I don’t go lecturing them - hardly. Their decision for their child.

What did you do to tackle the issue when you taught in boys schools and mixed schools?

I followed the school's behaviour policies, as I did for all instances of bad behaviour. Because that's basically all you can do.

I never said it was a bad thing for those particular children. But why would you be ok with the 'solution' only being available to a select few?

I am not ok with the many inequalities in the UK education system. Does me being not ok with them actually help remove them? No, not in any way. It is not parents' fault that the quality and type of school varies from area to area. Why on earth would they deliberately not send their child to the school which they feel would best suit their child? Refusing to do so would not be the slightest help to children in other areas of the country who do not have access to that type of school.

If you were ill or injured, would you deliberately choose not to use the best healthcare provider available to you locally, because you know that people in some other areas have poor healthcare? People are entitled to use the schools available in their area.

@Fairislefandango

You appear to be arguing against something I havent said

No wonder girls are facing such a hard time when teachers don't give a shit and other parents don't either as long as it doesn't affect their kid. It's the sake arguments used for PE

Meh, not my problem

Which is why ss will never be the answer

twitter.com/collectiveshout/status/1536241265435877376?s=21&t=zSkjBoAFCVLfZ5xcQKlhig

A whole thread in sexual harassment in schools by boys in mixed secondary schools.

I wouldn't teach in one let alone send my daughter to one.

I don’t read @Fairislefandango ’s post that way at all. She’s saying she did what she could within the rules of the schools she’s worked in but that, in her opinion, enforcing those rules made no difference to the behaviour. What else would you expect her to do?

@DustyTulips

I'd expect the teachers I entrust my children to to provide a safe environment for them

That goes for any kind of bullying

I'd expect them to foster an environment where sexism isn't tolerated

If a teacher said they couldn't do anything about racism amongst their pupils would that be acceptable?

No wonder girls are facing such a hard time when teachers don't give a shit and other parents don't either as long as it doesn't affect their kid. It's the sake arguments used for PE.

What?! I honestly don't know how on earth you got any of that from my post. Frankly it makes me absolutely livid that anyone thinks teachers don't give a shit. I see teachers traumatised by behaviour every day, doing their absolute best to help, protect and educate the children within the school's behaviour policies, because that is the limit of what they can do. Doing their best to stop and prevent bullying, suffering harrassment themselves from students... it's a constant battle, and not one you ever really win. If anything, many teachers give too much of a shit - which is highly detrimental to their own mental health. Teacher morale is at rock bottom, lots are on long-term sick leave, and people are leaving the profession in their droves.

As for you suggesting that parents choosing their children's school indicates that they don't give a shit about anyone else... what utter rubbish. Tell me how choosing a school you don't want your child to go to helps anyone else. Actually, don't bother. I'm out. I need to go back to hiding or avoiding school threads - the ignorant nonsense people spout on them is bad for my blood pressure.

@Fairislefandango

Do you think parents who chose PE give a shit about the kids in schools in deprived areas?

You really think that young teenage boys are solely to blame for this?

That the adults bare no responsibility?

The link pp posted a few posts ago is horrific.

It needs to be tackled. From govt level down. From teachers and parents

Removing your dd only helps your dd. Which is completely understandable.

But its not a solution to the problem

I tell you what if you’ve got boys masturbating in class, watching porn, making sexual comments, harassing girls asking for nudes or sexually assaulting anyone it hasn’t happened because a teacher isn’t bothered. It’s happened because a parent isn’t bothered. And if I can protect my DD from that by sending her to a local, non selective girls school with excellent academic results and a great reputation I will. And if the only fear is she won’t know how to talk to boys then Im sure we can rustle some up in her sports and hobbies.