To ask if Co-Ed is better than single sex..

[CHiSOCG]

For girls? My DH is keen on Co-Ed. Most of my friends are looking at local single sex grammar or independent. Of course most will go co-ed comprehensive if they don’t pass the 11+ for the grammar.

Exactly this. At school, my kids do sport with the opposite sex. Do lessons with them. Act in plays with them. Play in orchestras with them. Go on residential trips with them. Go to school social events with them. The vast majority of their interactions are totally mundane and non-sexual. I would far rather that than them only encountering the opposite sex in a more highly-charged social environment.

"struggle with the concept of just being friends with the opposite sex"

This is what I've mainly seen, but also people being uncomfortable with the opposite sex at work, which is a huge problem.

I agree with you. I don't care whether it's an accurate reflection of the 'real world' that they will experience after school. I just want my daughter to be able to go about her education without feeling like each day she needs to protect herself. Her experience at an all girls' school is so massively different (and better) than my awful experience of school. I didn't learn to 'stand up' for myself. I learnt to appease them by not engaging. It was a really shit experience.

Exactly or honey trapping boys, promoting self harm etc

Nonsense.

I am uncomfortable with some of the opposite sex at work, because some of them are sexist twats.

No but maybe without the girls to use to baby sit the boys at school the teachers might actually have to start dealing with the behaviour.

I see teachers do their absolute best to try to deal with this behaviour (and all other bad behaviour) day-in-day-out. Nothing really works. There is no strategy or punishment which actually magically solves these problems. Teachers don't 'use girls to babysit boys'. They do arrange seating plans to avoid sitting troublesome kids (male or female) next to each other, because that minimises dusruption to the class as a whole. That's not 'babysitting'.

But this is a society issue, not a school issue. Some of the most interesting posts on this thread are from the PPs from other countries, where SS schools are unheard of. Why can they achieve this and we can't?

True, but waiting around for huge societal change doesn't really help with parents' decisions about where to send their daughters right now.

It's also worth pointing out that we aren't always comparing fairly when we compare single sex schools with co-ed schools though. A high proportion of single sex schools are either independent or selective schools. So there are often reasons other than sex segregation why the behaviour in girls' schools is better. I taught in one girls' school years ago and am about to start a new job in another. They are both absolute havens of civilisation compared with all of the many other schools I've taught in, although I have taught hundreds of absolutely wonderful boys over the years.

"struggle with the concept of just being friends with the opposite sex"

This is what I've mainly seen, but also people being uncomfortable with the opposite sex at work, which is a huge problem.

I've never encountered this and did not experience it myself, in spite of having gone to a girls's school. The single sex school I taught at for years did collaborative stuff with the nearby boys' school (very common practice) and most of the girls did all kinds of outside school activities where they would have met boys. Plus obviously plenty of them had brothers, whose friends they met etc. It's not like they were in a nunnery.

I see teachers do their absolute best to try to deal with this behaviour (and all other bad behaviour) day-in-day-out. Nothing really works. There is no strategy or punishment which actually magically solves these problems. Teachers don't 'use girls to babysit boys'. They do arrange seating plans to avoid sitting troublesome kids (male or female) next to each other, because that minimises dusruption to the class as a whole. That's not 'babysitting'

You call it a seating plan..us parents see it fir what it is. Picking quiet compliant children usually girls to absorb bad behaviour. Funnily enough its never the assertive girls who tell them to fuck off that are picked to be the buffers. Its always one that will sit there with no desk space having their stuff thrown about and their chair kicked the entire lesson without saying a word that gwts pucked for that job. Do not tell me that's a coincidence

Nothing really works. There is no strategy or punishment which actually magically solves these problems

Except for not having girls put in a position where it's their everyday normal to be penalised for being in the same school as the boys.

At least in a single sex school, you're keeping a couple of girls that don't get on apart and not putting them in a music practice room together, rather than deciding which girl is least likely to come back down crying because the boy she was put with grabbed her breasts and he's denying it with all his mates calling her a lying whore.

Single sex schools can be vicious too. My DN was horribly bullied as I have said in a single sex school. Hair pulled and beaten up.

They aren't all sweetness and light.

Now she is in a co-ed she is thriving.

Depends on the girl and the school of course. But yes. Definitely better for most girls.

Co ed has been fantastic for my children (girls and boys). I would actively avoid single sex schools having seen my friends' children's experience of them but I appreciate it does depend on the schools and children.
(The boys at single sex schools I know seen to be incapable of conversing with girls normally and see them all as potential "conquests" and have no respect for girls. The girls have all struggled with friendships. My children have all had great relationships with girls and boys; the girls achieve better than his in the school but the boys all do fine).

Brave lady. But worth doing.

Personally wouldn't consider single sex school for my DD. I went to one and the bullying and bitchiness was unreal. I thankfully was allowed to move to a co-ed after becoming suicidal. At the co-ed I thrived and got so much more confidence, was 1000x better.

Not the point but -

I've never in my live heard anyone other than American films use the word co-ed

(Can't offer anything else as I've never known anyone who went to a single sex school)

The more I read of this thread, the more I think that this is far more about wider societal issues than it is about gender. Some of the descriptions on here about their DDs' experiences are just unimaginably far removed from our experience of a coed school. I'm not saying there are never any issues at all, but for the most part, the girls at our school are respected, successful and confident. God help the boy that tries to grab their breasts in a corridor, frankly. But it's a selective independent - probably similar in lots of ways to the SS schools discussed here, which are often selective or independent or both. That suggests to me that this is not predominantly a gender issue, but a broader societal/behavioural issue that is being played out through the prism of gender.

@kairouan my DDs went to our local state comprehensive and there were some incidents, but they were immediately and strongly dealt with when reported, and the boys involved invariably were the ones who had issues at home with known SS involvement. This is coming from at home and that is where it needs to be tackled - school segregation will just mask the problem. Sexualised behaviour in schools absolutely needs to be handled, but without a long term solution involving cultural change in society anything schools do will be a sticking plaster.

The problems that arise in girls only schools also need to be tackled at a societal level - which would also help reduce the prevalence of eating disorders.

You call it a seating plan..us parents see it fir what it is. Picking quiet compliant children usually girls to absorb bad behaviour. Funnily enough its never the assertive girls who tell them to fuck off that are picked to be the buffers. Its always one that will sit there with no desk space having their stuff thrown about and their chair kicked the entire lesson without saying a word that gwts pucked for that job. Do not tell me that's a coincidence

Yes I'm sure you parents who are not in the classroom, don't know most if the kids and don't know anything about teaching a class absolutely kniw much better than teachers what is going on in their own classrooms and what their intentions and motivations are . What do I know? I've only been a teacher for 27 years. Is it a coincidence that badly behaved pupils are separated? No. Does that mean quiet girls are being 'picked' to babysit? No. In many classes I teach, it is girls who need separating from each other.

@pointythings that is entirely what I mean. Exactly as I said upthread - SS schools are a sticking plaster only available to a small minority.

No we just have the children coming home panicked because they don't want to get in trouble or cause trouble but they can't do their work when their pencil case has been taken, or they can't put their books on the table, or if they dare try and put a book on the table theor work looks like shit because the table.gets kicked all lesson.

Or they accidently get placed between 2 kids who can't behave and get it from both sides.

There are actually 28 other kids besides the 2 who cant sit together. Just because they sit down and shut up amd take it doesn't mean it's a successful seating plan.

Well.it is if the Intention is a quite life.

Apart from the fact that some of the posters here have been the girl put next to the predatory boy and complaints ignored because 'he's a boy and I'm counting on you to help him', some of us have also been around classrooms as staff. And witnessed distraught girls being written off as hysterical and making up stories for attention or being told they aren't being helpful by saying they don't want to sit next to the boys causing disruption.

I won't ever willingly work in a mixed school ever again. I'll happily work in an All Boys' school, I'll work in All Girls' schools, I love the description of single sex schools being a haven of civilisation - as soon as you take out the aspect of it being males and females in the same classrooms and the same site, both appear to become far more reasonable and well mannered, including where there is no selection on the basis of ability or income.

I still think it comes down to school culture. Our local all boys' non-selective has the worst reputation of any of the schools in the area, and is the very opposite of a haven of civilisation (bullying, gang violence, close to closing down). Our local coed non-selective is one of the best in the area, and parents go to huge lengths to get their kids in there. There are also other SS boys' and girls' schools which are very well regarded, as well as a coed with a very bad rep.

Well.it is if the Intention is a quite life.

I hope you're not assuming that the 'quiet life' is for the teacher's benefit but not the students'.

My initial posts on this thread were supportive of parents sending girls to single sex schools, and I am, but largely because of the sexual harrassment etc that they often suffer from boys, rather than because of boys' general poor behaviour (inside and outside the classroom. Because one thing I have noticed over the last few years is the massive deterioration in girls' behaviour.

Many girls are now displaying disruptive, offensive, aggressive behaviour on a par with the boys. I can honestly say that when spacing out the disruptive kids in a classroom these days, I'm just as likely to see well-behaved boys in between disruptive girls as the other way around.

The reason behaviour is often better at single sex schools is largely because they are often not 'bog-standard' comprehensive schools in 'bog-standard' areas. Admittedly I'd still say behaviour is almost certainly better in a girls' comprehensive than a boys' comprehensive, but I doubt there are actually that many of those around.

The two girls' schools I'll have worked at are havens of civilisation because they are a top private school and a highly selective grammar school. But yes, comparable boys' schools would be a little more boisterous (but still a lot less so than non-selective ones). The girls' comp I used to live near.... not so much of a haven!

It’s a silly question as there are far too many variables to be able to say one is “better” than the other. Mine are at state girls school it’s not perfect by any means but there isn’t the widespread disruption in classrooms that Dh and I had in our mixed comps.

Also it’s not uncool to be academic as it was at our schools where anyone who worked was a swot and a square whereas now they really want to achieve.

@Fairislefandango I completely agree with your points, and they should be taken as yet another argument for addressing sexist behaviour and offences, not as an argument in favour of SS schools. There isn't a SS comprehensive round our way. Not. One. If you want SS education, you have to go the private route, and even then you have to go out of the immediate area. So the havens of civilisation are only available for people who have money. That applies to the grammar school route too (though none in our area) - because hey, tutoring. It isn't good enough. All our DC deserve better, not just the wealthy ones. So let's tackle the problem at a societal level instead of faffing about with sticking plasters that not everyone can access.