So sick of walking on eggshells but can't deal with the fall-out if I don't. Advice please!

[DWofMN]

I'm using DH's account, I'm not a MNer so please forgive me if I mess up the terminology - and apologies that this is long.

DH posted recently about an issue I'm having with my family and the general advice was either to go NC or to stand up to them - I don't feel like I can do either because DM has a temper but I love her dearly and treasure her in my life. She's an amazing GP to DS.

There are a few incidents playing on my mind and I don't know how to handle them:

DH and I are moving house to a new location, just over two hours from where we live. DM messaged me a couple of weeks ago to say that DSis was going on holiday to "nearby" the new house and, because DSis wanted to do an "adult only" activity with her DH, they had asked DM to come along and babysit DN. DM suggested we take this opportunity to show her our new house (I don't see why she needs to see it tbh) and I said I'd speak to the agent. The agent said it basically depends how busy they are - the owners won't allow us to just have free access to the house (it's vacant) which is fair enough so the agent said he'd do a viewing for DM if he has a slot available on the day but that he'd be prioritising people viewing properties who are actually going to purchase them (which is also fair enough). It also tied in well because I'm in my third trimester now and DSis still has my 0+ baby seat from when DN was little - and I need it back. So, I could tie in getting that back from her, I asked her to take it with her so I could get it back and she said she would. I've been anxious to get it back because DSis isn't the most reliable and I'm worried it'll be broken or missing parts and I need to know ASAP because it's part of our whole travel system.

On the day, the agent said that, unfortunately, he's fully booked up and there's no way he can do a viewing of the house for DM but that the vendors have said they have no problem with us going onto the property to look at the gardens and things - and we could also show DM the local area. I relayed this to DM, who was annoyed but ok, and I suggested we do an activity that's right next to the house that DS and DN would enjoy - DM agreed and we said what our ETA was and I sent a link and Google Maps location for the activity. When we arrived, about two hours later, there was no sign of DM and a few minutes later, DH got a text from DM that said "that's too far away..." (even though it's right next to the house she wanted to go and see) so DH replied asking her what she'd like to do. She replied "well, you could suggest somewhere closer for a start" - we don't know where she even is, all she's said to us is that she's staying "nearby the new house" (which was the entire reason she wanted us to book the viewing). She sent us her location, which was almost an hour away (and, by this point, we'd left the house three hours earlier, with a toddler and me being sick the whole time). DH drove the extra hour down and we met DM, DF and DN. DM was in a bad mood the whole time and told us she couldn't stay long (we met at a pub) because they needed to check out by 4pm (it was now gone 2pm) which I thought was odd because they were staying with DSis on her holiday so didn't need to "check out" but whatever. So, at 3.30pm DM went to the bathroom, I checked the time and said to DF we'd better head off to check out - at which point he said there's no rush because there's no check-out time. He said that just as DM reappeared, and she then had a big strop because she'd clearly been caught in a lie and just didn't want to spend any time with me. DF then wanted DH to help with lifting luggage so we went back to their accommodation to help, DSis came back at that point and said that she hadn't brought the car seat because she couldn't fit it in the car... So, I'd spent a day of my bank holiday driving for almost 8 hours to sit with my mum for 2 hours whilst she sulked, have DH sent rude text messages and not get my car seat back! It feels like I did nothing but try to appease her (by trying to get the viewing, by driving the extra hour to her, by pretending to accept she never said they had to check-out, by DH helping them pack, by not responding in kind to her rude messages etc) and all I got in return was her showing that she doesn't care at all.

DS has a birthday coming up and, because people insist on buying huge plastic toys that we have no space for despite us asking multiple times for them not to, we made an online list of gifts we think DS would like that are either activities or very small (a range of prices and no pressure to get anything). The online list is like a wedding gift registry where people say what they've bought so you don't end up with duplicates. For previous birthdays/Christmases, people have asked us for gift ideas and, regardless of what we suggest and even when we say "anything that isn't huge because we have no space", certain relatives insist on purchasing the biggest imaginable toys. I don't mean to sound ungrateful. One of DS's relatives purchased an activity gift from the list to take him to do. The next day, I got an irate message from DM asking why it's no longer available because she wanted to do that one. I asked around and found out, but explained to DM that DS would definitely enjoy doing the activity more than once so she can do it too if she likes - but she said no, she didn't want to do what someone else was doing. So, I had to ask the relative to give that up so DM could do it. Then, on a video call to DM later that day, DS showed her his new toy that he loves that he'd seen whilst we were out shopping (a small toy about £7). DM then got upset because she'd bought him the exact same toy for his birthday (how were we supposed to know that?) and couldn't return it because she'd bought it many months ago. I resolved that by saying we could return the one she has (still in packaging) as if it's the one we bought (they're identical and bought from the same store) and that DS can have the one he currently has a birthday gift from her - so she eventually, and grumpily, accepted that solution.

Then, last night, DM sent a link to our group chat to a holiday home booked for 2 days after my due date this summer. It's five hours drive from where I live, and mine and DH's share would be almost £1000 just for the house. The message accompanying the link said it was so that we could now go on the holiday. DM has been trying to book a family holiday abroad but we pointed out that we couldn't get a passport for the baby (and obviously can't leave a baby that's a day old with a sitter or anything) so obviously we couldn't go - so that was cancelled, with a lot of stropping and angst directed at me. DBro hasn't spoken to me since that was cancelled and DSis has only spoken to confirm she'd bring the car seat and then, when I saw him, to say she hadn't brought it. DSis then responded to the group chat with a pointed and sulky message about "oh, so this is instead of going somewhere nice abroad then?". I feel like I've ruined everyone else's summer holiday plans because I wouldn't go abroad so I feel like I have to agree with this holiday in the UK. But, in truth, we can't afford to pay thousands for a holiday right now and I don't want to book something for two days after the baby is due! I didn't reply in the group chat because I didn't know what to say so then I got a message late last night from DM saying that she's going to phone me today to "nail down my plans for July and August". I can't "nail down my plans" - the baby could come at almost any point in July/August (due date is the very start of August), so my only plan is to be prepared for that.

I feel like the stress of appeasing her is just too much - but it's so much less stress than either confronting her or ignoring her. So, there's no option which isn't stressful. I'm so ill, I have HG and I'm over a stone lighter than my booking-in weight and my weight is going down again. I just want to curl up in a ball, ignore everybody and cry - but that won't resolve the issue. She's going to phone me and I just don't know what to say, I don't even want to answer.

What do I do? I think I just needed to write all of that out.

It is narcissistic parenting. It is narcissistic abuse. The "get a grip" and "woman up" comments don't recognise the years upon years of conditioning that has you unable to break the patterns.

I strongly recommend that you seek out a therapist that genuinely understands narcissistic abuse; who will work with you until you feel able to break those patterns.

If you feel that you cannot mention the pregnancy to your family at this time, write in the group Whatsapp "We will not be able to take part in any holiday, UK or abroad, this year, for obvious reasons. Then step away. You have said no. Don't wait for the arrows to start flying.

100% agree with this

I wish I could wave a magic wand and say your mum will be miserable forever so you would absolutely know that you can never ever make her happy and stop trying.
other things you should do- stop hiding your pregnancy. Say whatever the fuck you want about it. never go on holidays with your family. Give no fucks about this - instead be enormously relieved. Let your dh reply honestly Eg you must be joking. Op has been unwell for months and is absolutely definitely not going on holiday either just before or after baby comes. We will be at home or in hospital with our baby. (See how this mentions baby baby baby- do this!). Anyway we don’t have 1000 for a holiday. Buying a car seat will cost us 200 alone if dsis can’t manage to give ours back.

You've posted about this before haven't you - I recognise the holiday / DD / passport issue.

Your mother treats you horribly. I'm so sorry; it must be very hard to take it and to step away.

It's a shame that you've rejected all the advice and said that it's an either "cut them off or put up with it" situation - it really isn't - there is so much good advice on here in between those positions - many of us on here do know what we are talking about as we've been in similar situations - you need to want to change though, I don't think you are there yet, as you still have hope that she will change

When I finally snapped and said to my DH "enough" he didn't actually believe me as we'd been together a long time by then and he'd watched me tying myself up in knots over them for the previous 15 years. It's now been 17 years since that "enough" moment and it didn't happen overnight, but one small step at a time got me to where I am now

Someone who treats you like shit isn't brilliant. The superpower you have as an adult is the ability to leverage the presence in your parent's lives. If she's trying you badly step back. You don't have to put up with that shit.

(And trust me, as the favourite granddaughter to a mean grandmother - that behaviour will filter down to your children. Protect them now!)

YABU to not listen to your DH on this one. He has your back. He's right. Your mother is toxic. Your family is toxic.

Go NC and have a happier life.

You will never ever change the way they treat you, so you need to draw back and go low contact. They bring nothing to your life, and they are demonstrating to your DC that the best way to get something they want is to treat someone like shit.

Mute the chats, stop visiting them and don't give them your new address when you move.

It feels like if I stop appeasing her then I've failed to make her happy. And I won't be happy if I've failed. I don't want to be a failure.

I imagine you have been trying to do this your whole life and you are clinging on because you still hope that one day you will be able to make her happy and stop feeling like you have failed.

But you wont ever reach that point.

And here is some hard truth - it is never on the child to make the parent happy at all. You simply cannot do it. Your mothers unhappiness is completely out of your control. It is a goal that you cannot and will not succeed at.

You can however make things easier for your husband and your child - but so much of that revolves around placing them at the centre of your family and your world. At the moment your mother appears to be there - and from what I remember of your husbands posts it is breaking him and you

Block & delete all of them. Just because they're blood related, doesn't mean they get to treat you like this.

It feels like if I stop appeasing her then I've failed to make her happy. And I won't be happy if I've failed. I don't want to be a failure.

You aren't a failure. Your family have failed you.
Use all the love you have on your own little family and forget about the vampires who suck joy out of your life.

No. No. No. No.

Practice, you'll feel better when you just say No, final answer. You're an adult! They can't tell you what to do, tell you off, make you do anything you don't want to.
Grow up op, your living as if you're still a teen under your parents rules.

It feels like if I stop appeasing her then I've failed to make her happy. And I won't be happy if I've failed. I don't want to be a failure.

So is that how you see/will see your own DC OP? As people whose role in life is to make you happy by appeasing you, no matter how disgusting your behaviour? And if they fail to do this, they will be "failures?"

How can it be worse if you set some boundaries? It's already terrible.

What do you think will happen? She'll stop talking to you? That's a win!

Look, seriously, I know how hard it is to change when you've spent your whole life dancing to their tune. I don't even know if it's possible without therapy.

But, you can start understanding why you find it impossible to deal with them and stop assuming it's your place to appease them. Eventually, you can get to a place where you're free of their bullshit.

Try this - it's an audiobook for ease. You must be exhausted. Difficult mothers Adult daughters

I'm sorry; I know it's hard, but you can break free.

This is all so true. You know that the only changes will come from you, because everyone else in your family is quite happy to have you there as the light relief - oh lets see what ridiculous hoops we can make her jump through this time - so they're never going to change.

So what are you going to do OP? You sound very passive but I do understand that you've been conditioned that way over years. But please, for your own sake, for your husband's sake, for your kids sake, make a start on standing up to your toxic family.

One step at a time, I appreciate that you feel bad, but just keep reminding yourself that its for your little family's good. Good luck!

Your family are horrible. You may well love them but I can't see why particularly. For example when I had just had a baby everyone came to me to say hello/see baby at agreed times and generally bent over backwards to be loving and kind and what suited me and family.
I'm not saying this to be smug we are not perfect but you need to see that what they ask of you is not healthy or loving. There is no way you should be paying hundreds to go on a holiday with a new baby and toddler when you don't know what state you will be in physically.
I know this will be hard as your mother sounds terrifying to me but you need to grow a pair to protect yourself and your little family.
You don't have to go full nuclear just state on the group chat clearly that you are bowing out of holidays for the time being as your finances won't stretch and you want to nest at home with your new baby.
Then you can just be vague and polite about meet ups or visits and actively step back apart from the odd visit.
Nothing will change until you make it change and your relationship with DH may be ruined in the long term by this whole situation so you need to find some way forward.
The stress from your post comes across and it seems your DM makes you miserable about every little aspect of life.

Send the message about not going due to it being close to your due date. Before you explain again about how you can't mention your pregnancy because of your Brother, why are their feelings more important than yours? This is another example of you accepting their unreasonable behaviour. Its ok to acknowledge you are pregnant and will have a newborn.

Send the message suggested earlier to the group chat. Let them be upset. You are upset and noone gives a shit about that. Put your feelings first.

Start with that holiday. Say no to going and say no to denying your baby exists.

HI OP
A few things stick out to me:

You can only change you.
You can’t change others.
Your mother (not "D"M) is not going to change. Please stop hoping that she will; it is hurting you.
She cannot be a good grandparent as her treatment of you is so toxic, she will likely treat the grandchildren the same way over time.
She has conditioned you to try to please her and will never show that she is happy with anything you do. This will not change.
She has conditioned you, so although you know you are the victim here, you feel unable to leave.
She is going to cause trouble no matter what you do or don’t do. Trying to appease her will not change this. You haven’t failed, you simply can’t make someone happy who is determined not to be.
You can’t really hide or ignore a pregnancy so you cannot agree to this holiday. She knows this and yet is enjoying torturing you with it.
Your “D”Sis has stolen your car seat.
Your DF will not protect you or help you.

There is some really good advice on here; things like the freedom programme and links to good sites and books. Please do try them out.

Please also consider the following:

The most important people in your life who come first: your DS, your unborn child, your DH and YOU!
No-one else matters, nor what they think or want – they can be silenced/blocked so you don’t have to hear or see them. That way, you remove their power to hurt you.
Try to stop thinking that you are a helpless victim who cannot escape. You can do this. Have therapy to help you if you can.
Try to stop thinking of your mother as a “good” grandparent. Your children need protecting from her. It is your role as parent to protect them from the toxicity you have been exposed to.
Your family’s treatment of you is making you ill and this is dangerous given you are pregnant. You must take care of yourself as a priority to protect you and your unborn child.

Your DH could help if you feel you cannot. A simple “no, we cannot join the holiday given that DWofMN will be having a baby at the time.” Followed by “she is ill at the moment so we will be taking a break from social media and family communications for the meantime as these add to her stress. I’m sure you’ll all understand and wish her well.” Then block them and remove yourselves from any groups.
Go very LC, if you have a landline, use call screening and reject any calls (better than listening to nasty answerphone messages).

Replace the car seat. It is never a good idea to use a second-hand one as you can’t know if it has been in an accident (same goes for helmets). If it has, it could look perfect from the outside, but the inside structure could be completely crumbled/destroyed. These things are sort of “single use” items really. Don’t let your “D”Sis think she has some kind of leverage over you.

Lastly, eat well, try to rest and hope all goes well for you with the birth.
You are a success and a good wife and mother, not a failure.

I do wish you well.

Have the row. Tell your DSis you need the car seat back. Is that the same DSis who won't let you mention pregnancy? Tell her that you are having a baby, and it is likely to be born at such and such a time, and she is STUPID to think that you can ignore that. Tell your mother all you've written, and that you are fed up with it. Just turn away from them for the time being. Get off SM: if they want to communicate with you, they can ring you and speak with words. And practise the magic formula: No, that doesn't work for me. Full stop. Have the row and get it over.

Channel your inner Gentleman Jack!

She's going to phone me and I just don't know what to say, I don't even want to answer

I don't feel like I can do either because DM has a temper

If you dont answer the phone ever again ,how will she get mad at you? Block text, remove WhatsApp etc until the only way she can contact you is by coming to your home then get husband to deal with it.

You know once you have changed your behaviour or grown balls is the hardest time. The more often you do it, the better you get.
I understand the living on eggshells, I did all my childhood, and once I no longer had to was a revelation. And frankly I will never go back to that.
You too could live without second guessing what every action will lead to. Its peaceful, it's very calm, no drama or raised voices. You should try it. It really does get easier with practise. Go NC, if you really cant manage that, give them an email address that you will check once a week or fortnight. That way there is contact, but on your terms.
In fact go online now and sort yourself a new phone number, dont give it to them, enjoy the few days of peace itll bring you.

And I'm so cross, kn your behalf, with your family that I signed off bedfor telling you I send my very best wishes for the next few weeks. I hope everything goes well, and that both you and baby will be healthy and happy.

There is a story that when Ted Turner, already a tycoon, founded CNN he stood in his palatial penthouse office in his new skyscraper and howled "Are you happy now, Dad?" at the ceiling.

Some parents will never be happy, whatever you achieve, however you appease. Prioritising yourself and your marriage and children is the only answer, honestly. It won't change, it won't improve, you are in for more decades of this unless you bite the bullet and refuse to play by their unfair rules, which are stacked so high in their favour you will never, ever win.

So much good advice on this thread. There is nothing that you can do to "please" them because they are getting exactly what they want from you - the satisfaction of being able to bully you. Yet you've been sold this lovely family idea, Ask yourself if they are treating you like this now. How will they be when you've all been cooped up together for several days?
They are frantic to get you to pay towards their rotten holiday and they are fully aware you will probably have to cancel but they don't care because all they want is your financial contribution.
You were so keen to appease DM that you even dragged the estate agent and your vendors into this mess. Trying to squeeze a concession out of them to give DM a viewing she has no right to on an actual BANK HOLIDAY. You could have put your house purchase in jeopardy over this woman's irrational demands. And then she threw a strop and refused to come.

I'm betting that you have already dragged your DH and your DS and others (the relative who had to change their present purchase) into this constant, impossible quest for appeasement.
The way your DM behaved on the bank holiday and in the restaurant with your DS was a terrible example for him and undermined you and your parenting. What kind of mother does this to her sick daughter in the last stages of pregnancy? Why are you so keen to enable and encourage such a close relationship, it doesn't sound like it will benefit your DS, seeing you so stressed and badly treated by her.

You don't want confrontation. The less you ask of them, the less power they have over you. Write off the car seat, write off potential babysitting, and find reliable alternative support - for everything.

Get DH to shield you and monitor WhatsApp, take all the "nailing down" calls with your authorization to hang up if necessary. Get into the habit of this now before the birth, as DM will be ramping up for that, either by hurtfully ignoring you or making demands which will have you negotiating with everyone again.

Stop telling them so much about your life, your house, your finances ( its like asking permission or in this case asking for interference.) Learn to be vague. Eg...Forget all the detailed well researched present lists, it's just giving them more excuses to complain. Don't ask for or expect presents from now on and sell/donate anything you don't want having sent a polite thank you note.

Give yourself permission to prioritise your own future family just focus on what you want to do and stick to it.
Most of all. If your DM and the rest want to have a strop. JUST LET THEM.
What can they do about it? Another strop? So what. They will call you names and say they won't like you? They don't behave as if they like you now. You have nothing to lose by saying no to them and everything to gain.
Please get RL help asap.
Congrats on your pregnancy and best of luck with your lovely growing family.

When she calls hand the phone to your husband and just let him deal with it. Falling that ' mum I'm having a baby, I feel overwhelmed with all of this situation and honestly I need to focus on the kids. More than happy to arrange things for same time next year hope you all have a lovely time, I have to go now bye' hang up turn off your phone 🤷🏻‍♀️ ultimate this woman brings you nothing but stress and sadness and all you teach your kids by letting her treat you this way is it's ok to let people walk over you if they are family. Either woman up and deal with the fallout or allow yourself to be treated badly forever
Also buy a new car seat let her keep the other one. Learning to say no that doesn't work for me is hugely empowering

Thank you to everyone for the additional recommendations for books/podcasts/strategies/tips etc since I last thanked. I am taking on board everyone's advice.

DH and I just wrote and sent a message:

"We’d really love to go on a holiday with you all but this summer sadly isn’t going to be possible for us. The baby is due on August 4th so the date on that Airbnb (August 6th) just won’t be feasible. The baby could arrive any time until mid-August. We can’t possibly know that everything will be ok with the little one, especially given the complications and being a high-risk pregnancy, so we will need to be near the hospital. We’re also expecting to move house around this time and I’m changing jobs so we have a lot going on."

DM replied "excuses excuses excuses" - which isn't the response I was expecting at all. I'm not sure how to respond to that at all.

(I accidentally just posted this response to a completely separate thread too because I didn't realise where I was posting - I couldn't delete it so I've reported it and I hope they'll take it down... oops!).