So sick of walking on eggshells but can't deal with the fall-out if I don't. Advice please!

[DWofMN]

I'm using DH's account, I'm not a MNer so please forgive me if I mess up the terminology - and apologies that this is long.

DH posted recently about an issue I'm having with my family and the general advice was either to go NC or to stand up to them - I don't feel like I can do either because DM has a temper but I love her dearly and treasure her in my life. She's an amazing GP to DS.

There are a few incidents playing on my mind and I don't know how to handle them:

DH and I are moving house to a new location, just over two hours from where we live. DM messaged me a couple of weeks ago to say that DSis was going on holiday to "nearby" the new house and, because DSis wanted to do an "adult only" activity with her DH, they had asked DM to come along and babysit DN. DM suggested we take this opportunity to show her our new house (I don't see why she needs to see it tbh) and I said I'd speak to the agent. The agent said it basically depends how busy they are - the owners won't allow us to just have free access to the house (it's vacant) which is fair enough so the agent said he'd do a viewing for DM if he has a slot available on the day but that he'd be prioritising people viewing properties who are actually going to purchase them (which is also fair enough). It also tied in well because I'm in my third trimester now and DSis still has my 0+ baby seat from when DN was little - and I need it back. So, I could tie in getting that back from her, I asked her to take it with her so I could get it back and she said she would. I've been anxious to get it back because DSis isn't the most reliable and I'm worried it'll be broken or missing parts and I need to know ASAP because it's part of our whole travel system.

On the day, the agent said that, unfortunately, he's fully booked up and there's no way he can do a viewing of the house for DM but that the vendors have said they have no problem with us going onto the property to look at the gardens and things - and we could also show DM the local area. I relayed this to DM, who was annoyed but ok, and I suggested we do an activity that's right next to the house that DS and DN would enjoy - DM agreed and we said what our ETA was and I sent a link and Google Maps location for the activity. When we arrived, about two hours later, there was no sign of DM and a few minutes later, DH got a text from DM that said "that's too far away..." (even though it's right next to the house she wanted to go and see) so DH replied asking her what she'd like to do. She replied "well, you could suggest somewhere closer for a start" - we don't know where she even is, all she's said to us is that she's staying "nearby the new house" (which was the entire reason she wanted us to book the viewing). She sent us her location, which was almost an hour away (and, by this point, we'd left the house three hours earlier, with a toddler and me being sick the whole time). DH drove the extra hour down and we met DM, DF and DN. DM was in a bad mood the whole time and told us she couldn't stay long (we met at a pub) because they needed to check out by 4pm (it was now gone 2pm) which I thought was odd because they were staying with DSis on her holiday so didn't need to "check out" but whatever. So, at 3.30pm DM went to the bathroom, I checked the time and said to DF we'd better head off to check out - at which point he said there's no rush because there's no check-out time. He said that just as DM reappeared, and she then had a big strop because she'd clearly been caught in a lie and just didn't want to spend any time with me. DF then wanted DH to help with lifting luggage so we went back to their accommodation to help, DSis came back at that point and said that she hadn't brought the car seat because she couldn't fit it in the car... So, I'd spent a day of my bank holiday driving for almost 8 hours to sit with my mum for 2 hours whilst she sulked, have DH sent rude text messages and not get my car seat back! It feels like I did nothing but try to appease her (by trying to get the viewing, by driving the extra hour to her, by pretending to accept she never said they had to check-out, by DH helping them pack, by not responding in kind to her rude messages etc) and all I got in return was her showing that she doesn't care at all.

DS has a birthday coming up and, because people insist on buying huge plastic toys that we have no space for despite us asking multiple times for them not to, we made an online list of gifts we think DS would like that are either activities or very small (a range of prices and no pressure to get anything). The online list is like a wedding gift registry where people say what they've bought so you don't end up with duplicates. For previous birthdays/Christmases, people have asked us for gift ideas and, regardless of what we suggest and even when we say "anything that isn't huge because we have no space", certain relatives insist on purchasing the biggest imaginable toys. I don't mean to sound ungrateful. One of DS's relatives purchased an activity gift from the list to take him to do. The next day, I got an irate message from DM asking why it's no longer available because she wanted to do that one. I asked around and found out, but explained to DM that DS would definitely enjoy doing the activity more than once so she can do it too if she likes - but she said no, she didn't want to do what someone else was doing. So, I had to ask the relative to give that up so DM could do it. Then, on a video call to DM later that day, DS showed her his new toy that he loves that he'd seen whilst we were out shopping (a small toy about £7). DM then got upset because she'd bought him the exact same toy for his birthday (how were we supposed to know that?) and couldn't return it because she'd bought it many months ago. I resolved that by saying we could return the one she has (still in packaging) as if it's the one we bought (they're identical and bought from the same store) and that DS can have the one he currently has a birthday gift from her - so she eventually, and grumpily, accepted that solution.

Then, last night, DM sent a link to our group chat to a holiday home booked for 2 days after my due date this summer. It's five hours drive from where I live, and mine and DH's share would be almost £1000 just for the house. The message accompanying the link said it was so that we could now go on the holiday. DM has been trying to book a family holiday abroad but we pointed out that we couldn't get a passport for the baby (and obviously can't leave a baby that's a day old with a sitter or anything) so obviously we couldn't go - so that was cancelled, with a lot of stropping and angst directed at me. DBro hasn't spoken to me since that was cancelled and DSis has only spoken to confirm she'd bring the car seat and then, when I saw him, to say she hadn't brought it. DSis then responded to the group chat with a pointed and sulky message about "oh, so this is instead of going somewhere nice abroad then?". I feel like I've ruined everyone else's summer holiday plans because I wouldn't go abroad so I feel like I have to agree with this holiday in the UK. But, in truth, we can't afford to pay thousands for a holiday right now and I don't want to book something for two days after the baby is due! I didn't reply in the group chat because I didn't know what to say so then I got a message late last night from DM saying that she's going to phone me today to "nail down my plans for July and August". I can't "nail down my plans" - the baby could come at almost any point in July/August (due date is the very start of August), so my only plan is to be prepared for that.

I feel like the stress of appeasing her is just too much - but it's so much less stress than either confronting her or ignoring her. So, there's no option which isn't stressful. I'm so ill, I have HG and I'm over a stone lighter than my booking-in weight and my weight is going down again. I just want to curl up in a ball, ignore everybody and cry - but that won't resolve the issue. She's going to phone me and I just don't know what to say, I don't even want to answer.

What do I do? I think I just needed to write all of that out.

@DWofMN oh dear God. Read your last paragraph out loud. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR MOTHER’S HAPPINESS. She is. You are only a failure if you continue to risk your health, your marriage and your ds by dancing to her utterly ridiculous demands. May I politely suggest some counselling for yourself as a matter of urgency, to help release you from the aha lies of this abusive relationship?

Totally agree with this. I was completely enmeshed with my mother and family from conditioning to people please as a child. They used to literally wipe their feet on me, all of them. I ended up married to a clone of my mother it was so normal to me.

As soon as I got into therapy I realised how abusive and toxic their behaviour was/is. Now NC with the lot of them, absolutely no regrets and life is really good. I would NEVER go back.

It can be done but you will need help. Therapy is like reparenting. It opens your eyes to your self defeating behaviours and also the toxicity of some people. Once you start to see it, you can't unsee it. There is no fixing these people and tolerating their behaviour is having a terrible effect on you.

Rude.

Funnily enough, a lot of people managed to.

All you had to do was scroll past

You were not put on this planet to make your mother happy.

If she gets upset, or disappointed, she will have to do what the rest of us do, and get over it.

It is not your job to fix other peoples bad behaviour - THEY are the ones with the big problems, although your problem is being the scapegoat.

Why do BILs problems trump your problems. Im sorry that he is having problems, but the world is full of people having babies, and it isnt as if you have done it to piss him off, and spent the last 9 months gloating. Your pregnancy and his lack of pregnancy are entirely different scenarios. And its not as if its a secret, is it? This baby isnt going to suddenly appear as if by miracle, and then you are never supposed to mention the child for the rest of its life? Can you see how batshit that is? I also seem to remember that ist your mum only who has set this rule.

So first step. Mention the pregnancy. Mention the illness. Mention the due date and if your mother kicks off, then Id copy and paste her reply back to the group. And say, sorry, none is done intentionalaly top be difficult, but these are simply facts.

are you saying that some in your family dont even know the baby is due then? So they just are left to think that you are being difficult?

Its OK to mention your pregnancy. Its OK to use the birth as a perfectly legitimate reason to not go on holiday.

A couple of forwarding texts / whatsapps to the group, holding the mirror, may shatter her control. I think she is playing divide and conquor and making shit up to be deliberately nasty.

You may never know why. But this is absolutely HER problem

And actually, playing nicely with the kids whilst refusing to engage with you is evil, and its setting the scene that you are the bad guys to the children, that you are insignificant and can be ignored. She is TEACHING YOUR OWN CHILDREN to treat you like shit. This needs to stop right now. Otherwise you are in for a whole stock of problems, and down the line when they are usual bolshy teenagers, she will try to steal them to live with her.

Try reading the OP's posts then. It's very easy to do.

And the fact that there are over 150 posts on this thread proves that quite a few people managed

OP, I haven't read everyone's posts, just yours. So I suspect I'm just saying what everyone else has....

but this is ridiculous.

You need to be clear. They are ignoring your pregnancy because of the issue with SIL. Which is ridiculous in the first instance. But it's even more ridiculous because they seem to think you can just miraculously go on a family holiday when realistically you could be in bloody labour? And even if you did take the baby - how is it being sensitive to your SIL for you to turn up on a holiday with a newborn baby?

You have to stop. Just stop. You can't fix this. You can't just NOT be pregnant or NOT have a baby in July/August. This are physical things. To be honest, your family's responses are SOOOO batshit that it is almost impossible to believe it's true.

Your family sounds fucking awful.
The pressure they're putting you under near your due date alone is reidiculous, not to mention all the other stuff.

YOU need to fix yourself. You've said it's hard, but do you want this dynamic to be seen as normal by your DC?

You are bending over backwards to accomodate some very immature, brattish, toxic behaviour (e.g. the birthday gift, the holiday plans) and even pushing that pressure onto your DH.

This madness has to stop at some point.

You've said it yourself - you can't fix her. You can't make her happy. You're not "winning" but are currently miserable with it all. So why not change it and make yourself happy?
They'll still be a load of unreasonable shits, but if you focus on what YOU want to do/can do when they demand it, at least you'll be changing the dynamic.

If you don't like confrontation, have you considered the grey rock technique? www.healthline.com/health/grey-rock

You are a grown woman. You have one child and another on the way. You CAN tell these loonies to stop being ridiculous. They don’t love you more when you jump through their stupid hoops. You say you are not ready for NC/LC but by God you need to read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward as a first step. What horrible people your family are. Look after yourself and baby on the way - disengage, disengage

actually I prefer what others say. state the facts
You have been, and still are, incredibly ill with this pregnancy, including being hospitalised.
consultant says bed rest before and after
you wont be going on holiday.

if it starts kicking off, Id say thems the facts and you are leaving the chat. and leave the chat

it will feel horrible. you wont be used to it. But once you realise that the sky didnt fall in, you will begin to see a chink of sunlight. And get the book about toxic parents. Get yourself on the stately Homes threads on relationship board

and get some therapy.

and mostly, enjoy your pregancy, your DS, your lovely husband and your new home

This was really hurtful and upsetting to read - because it's absolutely true. You're completely right. I enjoy fixing the problems, I like that I can make her demands happen. I like that people acknowledge when I've done 50,000 things at once and pulled it all together and it worked and everyone's happy.

I don't know how to accept that I cannot fix this. If I knew the baby would come on a specific day and be healthy enough to not need hospital then I'd make it work - but I don't know that, so I can't commit to the holiday. Also, increasingly, I can't meet these demands on my own - I can't drive right now, I can't lift heavy things, I need DH to do those things for me. So, when my family require that I do them, he ends up having to do them by extension.
You are such an intelligent, kind, honest person OP. Well done for taking this on the chin. I agree with every word @Haffiana wrote btw - & you seriously need to arrange some deep therapy to work on reframing the dysfunctional dynamic you have with your family. It has twisted your reality so far that you cannot see how barking your family is.

It feels like if I stop appeasing her then I've failed to make her happy. And I won't be happy if I've failed. I don't want to be a failure.
And THIS is at the core of what you need to address in therapy.
Right now - you are failing to protect yourself from your mother's predations. You are failing to disengage your child from a close relationship with a toxic woman, who will soon hurt him (or use him to hurt you) in the same way she hurts you. You are failing to protect your husband from her batshittery. You are failing to stand up for yourself.

The only way for you to succeed is to lose the insane notion that your mother's happiness = your success. This is obviously so engrained in you that - despite your very clear smarts - you are unable to see how toxic & damaging it is. THE ONLY WAY FOR YOU TO NOT BE A FAILURE IS TO DROP THE ROPE THAT YOUR MOTHER KEEPS THROWING AT YOU.

Sorry to shout OP. I too have a mother like yours. I'm 60, & have only been free of her for 5 years (NC). Don't leave it as long as I did. It is so damaging.
You need to set yourself free. Whether you do that by controlled low contact, Grey Rock etc - or have a blow out, or go NC - is the only choice you need to make. Your mother's happiness cannot depend upon you continuing to be her creature. Don't worry about her - when you stop being her Scapegoat, she'll quickly find a new source of Supply - psychcentral.com/pro/recovery-expert/2019/02/what-is-narcissistic-supply#2

OP - go to this thread. There are many. People will help
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4531618-April-2022-well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes

Just to be clear, the DBro and his girlfriend who are TTC live abroad and aren't coming on the holiday. They haven't said I can't mention the pregnancy but my DSis did, and that's been supported by DM. In fact, when I told DSis that I'm pregnant she said "oh no, how are you going to tell DBro and GF?". I told DBro on the phone but his girlfriend was away at the time so I assume he's told her - no one's mentioned it in front of them since (or in the groupchat, therefore). My DH did slip up and mention that I'm in hospital at one point (but didn't say anything about pregnancy specifically) but no one responded to that message. I tried mentioning the pregnancy/sickness to my DM when I saw her in person early on but she wouldn't engage so that stopped. I sent my DSis a picture of my bump when it "popped" because, in my first pregnancy she asked me for pictures non-stop and I was always reluctant to send them because I felt so unwell - but DSis never replied to that.

Hi. Your family situation sounds dire. But you know that given what you have written. All the mumsnet posts in the world won't change the fact you need to just say no to them.

They are nasty. 100% nasty

The brother who is supposed the centre of this DOESNT EVEN KNOW what batshittery is going on to save his poor feelings.

Are you close to that brother? does he do the tune calling and tune jumping in this dynamic or has he moved far enough away to keep LC

and did you say there is another brother who also lives abroad? and is coming home? Is he aware of the baby? I seem to recall they were making great claims about passports, so assuming he is as toxic as the rest

The pregancy is a red herring. Its something concocted between golden child and mother, who are two sides of the same coin. Guessing Sis is a mum minime

What they are doing is cruel and controlling.

And the presents for your son. Controlling. And probably not even actually what she bought / wanted - she just didnt want someone else to do them, and wanted to cause problems. just to see you jump.

watch out with your kids. she will turn them. or she will relegate DN as the golden one and continue behaviour down the generations. She is already setting your new baby up to be 'the one that cannot be named'

What everyone else says - oh, and just buy a new car seat for your baby (or get one off a FB or charity site) instead of worrying about if your DSis will give it back and if it will be useable if/when she does! Act as if it's gone for good.

On the group chat, write: "Please count us out of the holiday plans this year, we just won't be able to take part where-ever it is, sorry"

It is as simple as that. Just do not deviate from this line. That is that!!

In the other scenarios:

a) the estate agent said it was tricky so you could simply have said to your mum, "sorry mum the estate agent says it isn't possible". Job done.

b) not quite sure where your sister lives but if she's not close enough to drop round the baby seat you could tell her you're going to arrange a courier pick up for it, can she have it packed up ready to collect by x day please.

c) on the present list - it's taken by someone else, this is not your problem to sort out. The £7 toy - just suggest she gives it to another child? "Ah well what a shame mum" but don't take any action.

You are right that for the sake of DH and your children, you need to stop doing unreasonable things for her.

Yes, managed to read all of the many, many posts from a few days ago when the OP/DH was given screeds of good advice on the same/similar topic.

This madness will only stop when YOU make it stop. It really is that simple. As for ignoring the pregnancy, how will that pan out when the baby is here? Are you going to hide the baby? Stop being so passive. You don't have to be rude, just factual.

"Hi Mum. That hotel looks lovely. Obviously with baby due on 2nd August, we won't be able to come, but we hope you have a great time".

If she kicks off and demands you come on holiday, you just keep repeating that you're not coming.

To be honest, they sound so vile, I'd be prepared to go NC.

The more you post the note I feel for your husband OP. How on earth he sits and watches you dancing in circles around these abusive bullies, I don’t know. Walk away from them and focus on your marriage or I really think you will live to regret it.

God they're horrible to you!
I'm like you, I like fixing problems and making everyone happy. But now I have DS I've had to pull back and start protecting my sanity.

I offer something fair and compromised. If they refuse and insist on their own way then I just say "aw that's a shame, we don't have time, we'll see you next time."

So in terms of the holiday I'd just say "aw hope you all have a great time! Gutted it's right over babies due date but we'll come next time!" They know when your baby's due, I feel like people turn it into a game to see how far you'll bend over backwards for them.

Just to be clear, the DBro and his girlfriend who are TTC live abroad and aren't coming on the holiday. They haven't said I can't mention the pregnancy but my DSis did, and that's been supported by DM

FIl did similar to us with last pg - as close family friend had lost a similarly timed pg quiet late they'd been warned not to have more as it was so high risk but it was devastating for them. The friend in question wasn't around on our calls or visitng us and when we did see her was fine as was her DH.

I followed DH lead and completely ignored it all - pg and baby were mentioned in normal conversation - negative comments were ignored or politely told not on.

MIL rapidly came round and FIL with no support just stopped.

Stepping back and just refusing to engage with any of it - though I do wonder if you will need some form of counselling to change how you deal with this behavior.

I'm sorry but you're starting to sound ridiculous now.
Your family don't like you mentioning your due date or the baby because your brother and his girlfriend are going through IVF (BTW, I empathise with them because I have a family member who struggled to conceive) but the world doesn't stop and people don't stop getting pregnant because someone else is struggling!
What are you supposed to do with the baby if it arrives before the holiday? Hide it away?!

Honestly, you really do need to step up and stop this whole charade that you're enabling.

Can you just accept that your mother will never be happy, regardless of your actions?

@DWofMN mate I don’t know what to say to you with your updates.

You are still missing the point that your baby is more important than any of this baloney. She matters more. Stick up for her.

You know what you have got to do it's say no to the holiday and stand up for yourself!
Even if baby arrived a week early babies aren't supposed to be in a car seat for more then 30 minutes at a time if under 1 month old! You will need midwife checks, baby weight checks etc etc etc

As for it being insensitive to your dbro and his gf as they are having IVF I very much doubt it is them taking issue and what's your whole family going to do when baby arrives pretend he/she doesn't exist incase they are upset?????

Protect your mental health be clear polite and don't engage in any of this rubbish and if your dsis won't return the car seat give her your bank details for the amount as she is taking the piss!!!