So sick of walking on eggshells but can't deal with the fall-out if I don't. Advice please!

[DWofMN]

I'm using DH's account, I'm not a MNer so please forgive me if I mess up the terminology - and apologies that this is long.

DH posted recently about an issue I'm having with my family and the general advice was either to go NC or to stand up to them - I don't feel like I can do either because DM has a temper but I love her dearly and treasure her in my life. She's an amazing GP to DS.

There are a few incidents playing on my mind and I don't know how to handle them:

DH and I are moving house to a new location, just over two hours from where we live. DM messaged me a couple of weeks ago to say that DSis was going on holiday to "nearby" the new house and, because DSis wanted to do an "adult only" activity with her DH, they had asked DM to come along and babysit DN. DM suggested we take this opportunity to show her our new house (I don't see why she needs to see it tbh) and I said I'd speak to the agent. The agent said it basically depends how busy they are - the owners won't allow us to just have free access to the house (it's vacant) which is fair enough so the agent said he'd do a viewing for DM if he has a slot available on the day but that he'd be prioritising people viewing properties who are actually going to purchase them (which is also fair enough). It also tied in well because I'm in my third trimester now and DSis still has my 0+ baby seat from when DN was little - and I need it back. So, I could tie in getting that back from her, I asked her to take it with her so I could get it back and she said she would. I've been anxious to get it back because DSis isn't the most reliable and I'm worried it'll be broken or missing parts and I need to know ASAP because it's part of our whole travel system.

On the day, the agent said that, unfortunately, he's fully booked up and there's no way he can do a viewing of the house for DM but that the vendors have said they have no problem with us going onto the property to look at the gardens and things - and we could also show DM the local area. I relayed this to DM, who was annoyed but ok, and I suggested we do an activity that's right next to the house that DS and DN would enjoy - DM agreed and we said what our ETA was and I sent a link and Google Maps location for the activity. When we arrived, about two hours later, there was no sign of DM and a few minutes later, DH got a text from DM that said "that's too far away..." (even though it's right next to the house she wanted to go and see) so DH replied asking her what she'd like to do. She replied "well, you could suggest somewhere closer for a start" - we don't know where she even is, all she's said to us is that she's staying "nearby the new house" (which was the entire reason she wanted us to book the viewing). She sent us her location, which was almost an hour away (and, by this point, we'd left the house three hours earlier, with a toddler and me being sick the whole time). DH drove the extra hour down and we met DM, DF and DN. DM was in a bad mood the whole time and told us she couldn't stay long (we met at a pub) because they needed to check out by 4pm (it was now gone 2pm) which I thought was odd because they were staying with DSis on her holiday so didn't need to "check out" but whatever. So, at 3.30pm DM went to the bathroom, I checked the time and said to DF we'd better head off to check out - at which point he said there's no rush because there's no check-out time. He said that just as DM reappeared, and she then had a big strop because she'd clearly been caught in a lie and just didn't want to spend any time with me. DF then wanted DH to help with lifting luggage so we went back to their accommodation to help, DSis came back at that point and said that she hadn't brought the car seat because she couldn't fit it in the car... So, I'd spent a day of my bank holiday driving for almost 8 hours to sit with my mum for 2 hours whilst she sulked, have DH sent rude text messages and not get my car seat back! It feels like I did nothing but try to appease her (by trying to get the viewing, by driving the extra hour to her, by pretending to accept she never said they had to check-out, by DH helping them pack, by not responding in kind to her rude messages etc) and all I got in return was her showing that she doesn't care at all.

DS has a birthday coming up and, because people insist on buying huge plastic toys that we have no space for despite us asking multiple times for them not to, we made an online list of gifts we think DS would like that are either activities or very small (a range of prices and no pressure to get anything). The online list is like a wedding gift registry where people say what they've bought so you don't end up with duplicates. For previous birthdays/Christmases, people have asked us for gift ideas and, regardless of what we suggest and even when we say "anything that isn't huge because we have no space", certain relatives insist on purchasing the biggest imaginable toys. I don't mean to sound ungrateful. One of DS's relatives purchased an activity gift from the list to take him to do. The next day, I got an irate message from DM asking why it's no longer available because she wanted to do that one. I asked around and found out, but explained to DM that DS would definitely enjoy doing the activity more than once so she can do it too if she likes - but she said no, she didn't want to do what someone else was doing. So, I had to ask the relative to give that up so DM could do it. Then, on a video call to DM later that day, DS showed her his new toy that he loves that he'd seen whilst we were out shopping (a small toy about £7). DM then got upset because she'd bought him the exact same toy for his birthday (how were we supposed to know that?) and couldn't return it because she'd bought it many months ago. I resolved that by saying we could return the one she has (still in packaging) as if it's the one we bought (they're identical and bought from the same store) and that DS can have the one he currently has a birthday gift from her - so she eventually, and grumpily, accepted that solution.

Then, last night, DM sent a link to our group chat to a holiday home booked for 2 days after my due date this summer. It's five hours drive from where I live, and mine and DH's share would be almost £1000 just for the house. The message accompanying the link said it was so that we could now go on the holiday. DM has been trying to book a family holiday abroad but we pointed out that we couldn't get a passport for the baby (and obviously can't leave a baby that's a day old with a sitter or anything) so obviously we couldn't go - so that was cancelled, with a lot of stropping and angst directed at me. DBro hasn't spoken to me since that was cancelled and DSis has only spoken to confirm she'd bring the car seat and then, when I saw him, to say she hadn't brought it. DSis then responded to the group chat with a pointed and sulky message about "oh, so this is instead of going somewhere nice abroad then?". I feel like I've ruined everyone else's summer holiday plans because I wouldn't go abroad so I feel like I have to agree with this holiday in the UK. But, in truth, we can't afford to pay thousands for a holiday right now and I don't want to book something for two days after the baby is due! I didn't reply in the group chat because I didn't know what to say so then I got a message late last night from DM saying that she's going to phone me today to "nail down my plans for July and August". I can't "nail down my plans" - the baby could come at almost any point in July/August (due date is the very start of August), so my only plan is to be prepared for that.

I feel like the stress of appeasing her is just too much - but it's so much less stress than either confronting her or ignoring her. So, there's no option which isn't stressful. I'm so ill, I have HG and I'm over a stone lighter than my booking-in weight and my weight is going down again. I just want to curl up in a ball, ignore everybody and cry - but that won't resolve the issue. She's going to phone me and I just don't know what to say, I don't even want to answer.

What do I do? I think I just needed to write all of that out.

Well done op. You should be very proud of yourself for taking the first step.
Your mother is good with her gc as they are no threat to her. They are children who won't take the limelight away from her. You, on the other hand, are about to have a baby and that would (in any normal family) be a huge thing and you should be centre stage. She cannot bear the idea that someone else might get more attention than her so she's minimised your pregnancy and basically made you afraid to mention it.
Classic narcissist.
Do you find that if everything is calm and settled she will create drama with herself as the victim in the middle of it all?
I can see this because I have a mother like yours. Difference is I went for counselling and it opened up my eyes to what was going on.
Mute the WhatsApp group for now and give yourself a few days of peace. Distract yourself with your family and I promise that taking a step back will make you feel better. Maybe not immediately but you've been conditioned this way all your life so it's not going to be an overnight thing.
It doesn't have to be a big blown up drama. Just quietly step back.

Definitely. They've also learnt that if your mother is focusing her ire on you then she's not aiming it at them.
My counsellor told me that the small child version of me was constantly on high alert and ready to smooth things over to prevent any sort of meltdown. Then as an adult the child version was still there panicking about mummy being sad.
It's not your job to do that. It wasn't then and it isn't now. Xx

Op, it's almost as if your mother is trying to be as cold and cruel to you as possible. Like she is going out of her way to put you in an impossible position as some kind of sick game. It's completely abnormal to expect someone to go on holidays on their due date. Like, I can't even state how bonkers that is. What's even more crazy is that you don't realise its nuts!

I have a very complicated relationship with my own mother and she has had her moments, believe me. But even she would find this completely unreasonable and she has said and done some unfathomable stuff in her time! It's completely crazy. It's actually one if the most unreasonable things I've ever read here.

Because I grew up with a complex relationship with my mum, I only started to question her behaviour in later years. At the start, my understanding that she was doing something wrong was heavily disguised by the indoctrination that I was there to please her. My feelings were so muddled.

After a while I was able to isolate those feelings of 'hold on, this is wrong' and experience them separately from 'hope Mum isn't annoyed with me, better keep her happy, she's a good mum really'. This took a lot of practise. I couldn't separate myself from her for such a long time that I didn't even know if something was wrong because I wasn't listening to that inward feeling of 'Wrong! Wrong! Wrong'.

Once I tuned into it, I felt more able to get her out of my head. Since I've done that, I can see her for exactly who she is. I can now think 'Mum is angry with me for X but I her reactions/ perceptions of the world aren't normal so I'm not going to take her opinion as seriously I did'.We have an OK relationship now, low contact but pretty positive compared to the past. She can still upset me and I'm still scared of her but I have individuated away from her. Find a therapist to help you unravel those years of enmeshment.

Do you realise this is incredibly abusive? Your mother sounds absolutely vile. Her response to your message is incredibly nasty - what kind of sane person thinks having a baby is just an “excuse”?

I can’t remember if you said you’re having or have had therapy but you seriously need some. You’re frankly delusional if you think any of her behaviour is justified or excusable. She was a highly abusive mother to you as a child, it sounds like she still abuses your father, and she has no concern, respect or empathy with you now. She doesn’t care about you, she just wants to manipulate and control you.

I really hope you see the light OP and cut her off (and if any of your siblings side with her, cut them off too). You don’t need to be needed. Making people happy to the detriment of yourself is absolutely not an achievement. You say you don’t want to be a failure but you’re failing yourself here, you’re failing your own well-being and your husband and child’s by allowing yourself to be controlled by this toxic dynamic. Please get some help to put an end to it.

Drop the rope is the right thing now

There is actually nothing else to say. They cant MAKE you go. They can try various techniques, but remember that nobody but you can actually MAKE you do anything , whatever tantrumming they use

Id agree in muting the conversation too - release yourself from the worrying and checking if anyone is saying anything / who has read what. Its of no importance. You have said your statement, you are not going, and your wall stands there unchanging. There is no need to be involved in the group chat about the holiday any more as you have removed yourself from it.

And yes to counselling ASAP

Your next step is to be able to spot and remove your child at the first signs of toxicity - so refusal to engage with you = time to leave now DS. Any disparaging comment about 'nasty mummy' 'time to leave now'

She is firing tennis balls at you, but you dont need to play the game by batting them back

you dont need to defend yourself

You dont need to explain yourself.

Your views and your wants/desires are the most important to you now, they need no more than a clear statement

With all due respect, you’re allowing your family to treat you like crap because you are afraid they won’t speak to you/get upset with you. That’s already happened so you really need to start sticking up for yourself and stop rolling over. It’s hard if that isn’t in your nature but they are ruining your life. I wouldn’t speak to the fucking lot of them!

I think you have done so well to send that message and now as others have said step back. I hope all the comments make you see how abnormal your family relationships are.
I imagine you have not spent any time with or around a standard family as you mention your DH is NC with his DM. Perhaps this has made it harder for you to see how awful this all comes across, as you have been like the frog sitting in the hot water as it slowly boils and not realising the situation is so bad.
It really is bad, that reply from your DM just took my breath away. Do you think she would rather you went on holiday and dropped the baby mid cup of tea in the kitchen? It's actually a mentally unwell answer.
I'm hoping you could look in at it all like a stranger or imagine doing and saying these things to your children and see how wrong it is.
I wish you freedom from them all and personally I would have moved more than 2 hours away. Find yourself some anger at how you are being treated and your and your baby's worth to them.

I'd suggest radio silence mute everything - be busy and focus on you and your pg.

The only possible other reponse is the above - and then radio silence - as it does make it clear your not budging and your are done with the hoilday idea but it may well lead to more issues and encourage them to chase contact so they have the last word.

It is a nasty reponse it minimises everything you are facing - which is a fair bit in next few months - and shows no concern for your well being - it's very catty.

I had to get angry before I had strength to make changes - I think you'll need mental space and very possibly external help to get there so first step get the space and take a step back mute everything be very busy and uncontactable would be my advice.

Op, often on threads about parents you get a small percentage of people who try to explain away any issues. Normally people who have good relationships with their parents and can't imagine what it's like to have a parent like yours.
So far I haven't seen any at all which is really unusual.
I hope you're feeling ok today. Those first few months of standing your ground can be scary and disorientating but you are doing fine.

You mentioned your sister was trying to control your Mum's drinking? I grew up with an alcoholic father who was controlling and emotionally abusive. The one person who stood up to him, as he didn't like him, or need anything from him was dh. He had no problems saying 'no'. Could your dh do that for you? Let him deal with your family.

My Mum can be a PITA as well. My ds, as an adult, will not accept this, and has words quite often with her.

I think I would have to reply to the message before going NC, ‘just to be clear, it is not possible for us to join you on this holiday as I will be in labour or giving birth, I am baffled that you consider this an excuse’

@DWofMN try and reverse the roles here. Can you imagine you are a mother and saying to your daughter any of the things your mother is saying to you? Would you treat your mother like she treats you? Of course not, you’re too kind/decent/normal. Can you now see how abusive she is being to you? If you cannot yet go low contact, next time something crops up, ask yourself if the positions were reversed - would this be reasonable? And don’t be in a hurry to reply to anything. Focus on yourself, your true family, and the coming baby.

Good point. My sil and my Dh have no problems standing up to my mother. Whilst my brother and I revert to being small children when confrontations happen.

Just stop playing. Do not agree to any plans involving her. At all. Do not engage in discussion beyond "no thank you" and "that doesn't work for me" and the occasional "I'm sorry you feel that way". Disengage and ignore. If you don't play her games they can't hurt you.

@DWofMN
When you have a moment, take a few breaths and open this link. You may find it very shocking.

The Laundry List – 14 Traits of an Adult Child of an Alcoholic
adultchildren.org/literature/laundry-list/

If you identify with the behaviors you see in yourself, your parents, your siblings from the laundry list and the other lists on the page, it could be helpful to find an Al-anon group and try it out for a while.

I've ordered some of the books people have recommended. With respect to therapy (and I'm going to sound stupid here) is that the same as the NHS wellbeing service or is therapy different? I feel like this is a basic thing that any adult should know but I actually have no idea what "therapy" is in practice. Should I speak to a GP about it or is it something I should find privately online?

DM has sent me a message to say she's spoken to my siblings and we're having a meeting tomorrow. I have an appointment tomorrow so I can't attend the meeting - I tried to move the appointment earlier today but I can't because they don't have any other slots this weekend (and I can't do a weekday slot because DH needs to drive me and he can't get off work). I haven't replied yet.

@DWofMN just reply and say you have a medical appointment, sorry can’t make it.

Why are you entertaining going and what is the big issue 🤷‍♀️

If she’s a dick she’s a dick.

Speak to GP about therapy they will direct you via nhs and may be able to recommend private providers in the area too.

You need private psychodynamic psychotherapy to properly unpick the kind of relationships and attachments your parents modelled to you and understand and undo the impact on you. NHS therapy is crap, I wouldn’t even bother going down that route.

Do NOT move anything for a ‘meeting’ you don’t need to attend.

“Hi Mum, sorry, I can’t do a meeting tomorrow I have an appointment. I don’t need to be there though - we can’t do a holiday this summer at all, so nothing really to discuss.”

Meeting about what? Your due date is two days before. That isn't something that is negotiable in a meeting...

That's nice they're having a meeting but why would you even think of going, even without an appointment? It will only be finger pointing at you when you are not in the wrong.

Either don't respond or tell her you can't make it. You don't need to tell her why either. You are busy and that's all she needs to know.

The NHS can offer therapeutic support. It is often Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, and will usually be a fixed number of sessions (6 in our area).

For your type of trauma (if you accept that this is what it is) the suggested therapies are EMDR or Person-Centred (Humanistic) Counselling. But I strongly advise that you seek out someone who genuinely understands the ways that narcissists behave. You may need to go out of area, but many therapists work on line these days. Try the directory at BACP, Psychology Today or the Counselling Directory. See if anyone resonates with you.

As far as the meeting, do you need to go? They can meet and rearrange their holiday. As much as I understand that it is difficult for you to know that they are talking about you when you aren't there, it is probably in your best interests to let them get on with it. They know your position. You aren't going on holiday with them. There is nothing more really for you to say.

Or

“Hi Mum, I have an appointment I can’t miss tomorrow. I don’t need to be there though - DH, DC1 and I can’t do a holiday this summer at all. Feel free to book whatever you and [siblings] think works for you - it’s a shame we can’t come but we can’t - maybe next year.”

Or

”Thanks for letting me know, Mum. Hope you all get the holiday sorted!”

Deliberately misunderstand, if that’s easier.

Don’t get sucked back in by talk of “a meeting”. Your mother may well be realising that she is losing her grip on you following your message to the group so figured she can best you down (emotionally) face to face.

Just reply to say you have plans tomorrow (they don’t need to know it is medical) and leave it at that. Don’t let them draw you into justifying yourself.