So sick of walking on eggshells but can't deal with the fall-out if I don't. Advice please!

[DWofMN]

I'm using DH's account, I'm not a MNer so please forgive me if I mess up the terminology - and apologies that this is long.

DH posted recently about an issue I'm having with my family and the general advice was either to go NC or to stand up to them - I don't feel like I can do either because DM has a temper but I love her dearly and treasure her in my life. She's an amazing GP to DS.

There are a few incidents playing on my mind and I don't know how to handle them:

DH and I are moving house to a new location, just over two hours from where we live. DM messaged me a couple of weeks ago to say that DSis was going on holiday to "nearby" the new house and, because DSis wanted to do an "adult only" activity with her DH, they had asked DM to come along and babysit DN. DM suggested we take this opportunity to show her our new house (I don't see why she needs to see it tbh) and I said I'd speak to the agent. The agent said it basically depends how busy they are - the owners won't allow us to just have free access to the house (it's vacant) which is fair enough so the agent said he'd do a viewing for DM if he has a slot available on the day but that he'd be prioritising people viewing properties who are actually going to purchase them (which is also fair enough). It also tied in well because I'm in my third trimester now and DSis still has my 0+ baby seat from when DN was little - and I need it back. So, I could tie in getting that back from her, I asked her to take it with her so I could get it back and she said she would. I've been anxious to get it back because DSis isn't the most reliable and I'm worried it'll be broken or missing parts and I need to know ASAP because it's part of our whole travel system.

On the day, the agent said that, unfortunately, he's fully booked up and there's no way he can do a viewing of the house for DM but that the vendors have said they have no problem with us going onto the property to look at the gardens and things - and we could also show DM the local area. I relayed this to DM, who was annoyed but ok, and I suggested we do an activity that's right next to the house that DS and DN would enjoy - DM agreed and we said what our ETA was and I sent a link and Google Maps location for the activity. When we arrived, about two hours later, there was no sign of DM and a few minutes later, DH got a text from DM that said "that's too far away..." (even though it's right next to the house she wanted to go and see) so DH replied asking her what she'd like to do. She replied "well, you could suggest somewhere closer for a start" - we don't know where she even is, all she's said to us is that she's staying "nearby the new house" (which was the entire reason she wanted us to book the viewing). She sent us her location, which was almost an hour away (and, by this point, we'd left the house three hours earlier, with a toddler and me being sick the whole time). DH drove the extra hour down and we met DM, DF and DN. DM was in a bad mood the whole time and told us she couldn't stay long (we met at a pub) because they needed to check out by 4pm (it was now gone 2pm) which I thought was odd because they were staying with DSis on her holiday so didn't need to "check out" but whatever. So, at 3.30pm DM went to the bathroom, I checked the time and said to DF we'd better head off to check out - at which point he said there's no rush because there's no check-out time. He said that just as DM reappeared, and she then had a big strop because she'd clearly been caught in a lie and just didn't want to spend any time with me. DF then wanted DH to help with lifting luggage so we went back to their accommodation to help, DSis came back at that point and said that she hadn't brought the car seat because she couldn't fit it in the car... So, I'd spent a day of my bank holiday driving for almost 8 hours to sit with my mum for 2 hours whilst she sulked, have DH sent rude text messages and not get my car seat back! It feels like I did nothing but try to appease her (by trying to get the viewing, by driving the extra hour to her, by pretending to accept she never said they had to check-out, by DH helping them pack, by not responding in kind to her rude messages etc) and all I got in return was her showing that she doesn't care at all.

DS has a birthday coming up and, because people insist on buying huge plastic toys that we have no space for despite us asking multiple times for them not to, we made an online list of gifts we think DS would like that are either activities or very small (a range of prices and no pressure to get anything). The online list is like a wedding gift registry where people say what they've bought so you don't end up with duplicates. For previous birthdays/Christmases, people have asked us for gift ideas and, regardless of what we suggest and even when we say "anything that isn't huge because we have no space", certain relatives insist on purchasing the biggest imaginable toys. I don't mean to sound ungrateful. One of DS's relatives purchased an activity gift from the list to take him to do. The next day, I got an irate message from DM asking why it's no longer available because she wanted to do that one. I asked around and found out, but explained to DM that DS would definitely enjoy doing the activity more than once so she can do it too if she likes - but she said no, she didn't want to do what someone else was doing. So, I had to ask the relative to give that up so DM could do it. Then, on a video call to DM later that day, DS showed her his new toy that he loves that he'd seen whilst we were out shopping (a small toy about £7). DM then got upset because she'd bought him the exact same toy for his birthday (how were we supposed to know that?) and couldn't return it because she'd bought it many months ago. I resolved that by saying we could return the one she has (still in packaging) as if it's the one we bought (they're identical and bought from the same store) and that DS can have the one he currently has a birthday gift from her - so she eventually, and grumpily, accepted that solution.

Then, last night, DM sent a link to our group chat to a holiday home booked for 2 days after my due date this summer. It's five hours drive from where I live, and mine and DH's share would be almost £1000 just for the house. The message accompanying the link said it was so that we could now go on the holiday. DM has been trying to book a family holiday abroad but we pointed out that we couldn't get a passport for the baby (and obviously can't leave a baby that's a day old with a sitter or anything) so obviously we couldn't go - so that was cancelled, with a lot of stropping and angst directed at me. DBro hasn't spoken to me since that was cancelled and DSis has only spoken to confirm she'd bring the car seat and then, when I saw him, to say she hadn't brought it. DSis then responded to the group chat with a pointed and sulky message about "oh, so this is instead of going somewhere nice abroad then?". I feel like I've ruined everyone else's summer holiday plans because I wouldn't go abroad so I feel like I have to agree with this holiday in the UK. But, in truth, we can't afford to pay thousands for a holiday right now and I don't want to book something for two days after the baby is due! I didn't reply in the group chat because I didn't know what to say so then I got a message late last night from DM saying that she's going to phone me today to "nail down my plans for July and August". I can't "nail down my plans" - the baby could come at almost any point in July/August (due date is the very start of August), so my only plan is to be prepared for that.

I feel like the stress of appeasing her is just too much - but it's so much less stress than either confronting her or ignoring her. So, there's no option which isn't stressful. I'm so ill, I have HG and I'm over a stone lighter than my booking-in weight and my weight is going down again. I just want to curl up in a ball, ignore everybody and cry - but that won't resolve the issue. She's going to phone me and I just don't know what to say, I don't even want to answer.

What do I do? I think I just needed to write all of that out.

Step back and let your DH respond if you wants to. Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy and block the lot of them.

Any parent who chooses to ignore their DC pregnancy, prevent them from discussing it, demand the same DC plans a holiday with a new born abroad and then when doesnt get their way holds the same DC responsible for forcing them all to take a UK holiday but still expects the same DC to appear pregnant, in labour or with new baby. She is a dreadful human being as are the rest of them....you need to step away from them all.....you do know they could all go abroad on their own, they can opt to make different choices but everything is revolving around you doing as your told

Another vote for not replying at all.
She's just trying to make you jump through hoops and manipulate your emotions.

I'm now questioning my sanity a bit because I thought her response was far more positive than I was expecting it to be. She's obviously annoyed but she doesn't seem angry so I thought that was a win? I'm a bit concerned that everyone else thinks it was nasty

Everyone else thinks it was nasty because it was nasty.

She is obviously annoyed but doesn't seem angry ? What would angry look like ? What has angry looked like in the past ?

Please excuse me for saying this, but your family are a bunch of ignorant narcissist’s! In fact, don’t excuse me at all. You are trying to fix a problem that will never be fixed. By bending over backwards and in every other direction that they all demand, all you are doing is making them think they are right, and you are the problem. You will never ever be able to get them to see they are damaging you. You are literally sacrificing the happiness of your own family, in order to keep your mother and the rest of your family from sniping at you. I wouldn’t even go LC I’d cut straight to the chase and go NC. What they are doing to you, is abuse. Plain and simple. You say your mum is great with your son and niece, but how will you feel the first time your son picks up on something and sides with your mother? It will happen, she sounds utterly manipulative and that’s putting it mildly.

Please start putting yourself first and by proxy your baby. You are far too stressed and they are the cause of it and don’t even care one bit.

Literally tell them to fuck off and cut them all off. What exactly are you gaining from any of these relationships? Zero. Literally nothing. They are take, take, take and don’t give one solitary fuck about how that’s affecting you or your family.

You can probably tell at this point that I’m NC with someone 🫣😬😆 My ‘dad’. Have been for 18 years and I don’t regret it one bit. You can be NC and have no malice, but just know that it is ok to say no and not give any explanation at all. You don’t owe them anything.

Big hugs xx

You're due a baby. You can't go. Totally ridiculous and uncaring of them. Not going to be catastrophic here but realistically you don't know 100% what will happen with the birth. They could be overdue. You might need an induction. You might need a c-section, or stitching or all sorts that could mean you're unable to do much.

You need to look after yourself because they only care about their own needs. Sorry.

I haven't Read all the responses so sorry if this has been mentioned.

Stop being such a doormat. So long as you keep letting DM and Sis walk all over you they won't stop.

You think that ‘excuses excuses excuses’ is in some way positive? I strongly suspect you’re in complete denial about how vile your mother is to you. If you could actually get out of the FOG, you’d see she does not treat you well. If you also took a step back, I wonder if you would realise that maybe you do not think the world of her or love her to bits. I am also asking myself what your mother says to your dc that makes her so special btw. She could be saying all sorts of things about you.

As for how they treat you. They do this because they can, ie you let them. Your message was so lovely, caring and totally appeasing, infantilising yourselves even. This sort of message would be appropriate for friends, who have texted to say they’d would live to meet you on x date, haven’t seen you for a while and don’t know you’re pregnant and ill.

Your communication style for them is all wrong. You simply cannot reason with people like this. In fact they use your dignified comments as a stick to beat you with as your mother has done here. All you can do is put up boundaries. The message should have been more concise and non-apologetic. ‘This is the same time as my due date. We are not free in July and August and will not be holidaying with you this year.’

As for how to respond? There are a number of possibilities eg: Remove yourself from the group and block your mother / sister or ignore (but i fear that would be seen as more weakness) or respond. The response being something like ‘My pregnancy is high risk. I am frequently ill and I have been hospitalised x number of times, which you would know if you had enquired after my health. Your response is vile. We will not be holidaying with you this year.’

If my mum had responded like that she would have been joking and responded separately with something like "Of course - how could I have forgotten your due date! Are there any dates you do think you could make? We'll see what we can do to fit around you.".

But then I've never had to worry that she's going to have a tantrum because I won't do what she wants.

Mute the messages so you only have to deal with it on your terms op

She is obviously annoyed but doesn't seem angry ? What would angry look like ? What has angry looked like in the past ?

I only ask because 'angry' for me was everything from screaming, shouting, physical violence, being ignored for long period's of time as punishment, telling people I was mentally unwell/on drugs, neither of which was true. I only wonder because you mentioned 'temper' which is short for unacceptable behaviour.

Because you have been conditioned by a narcissistic woman!
It's nasty as most other mothers would say oh course you and baby come first and what can I do to support you not put excuses excuses when it's 2 days after your due date!

Agree with earlier posters that you should look into some counselling for recognising the abusive relationship this is. Do not respond and mute it!

There are so many replies on here that I don't know if you will read this but I wanted to say that I have been your DS in this sort of situation with toxic grandparents and while right now she may dote on him and he may think she is wonderful, it won't last forever. I adored my grandparents as a child but would always notice that my parents were very tense around them. Then as I got older and was not mouldable or a doting grandchild, my grandparents stopped being so adoring and treated me with the same manipulative behaviours that I now know my parents were subjected to. And I didn't understand why because I was still a child and spent years trying to earn their love. Your DM is not a good grandparent. She is a toxic, narcissistic presence that will actually harm your children in the long run. I have had to have therapy to undo the damage caused by my grandparents. And my aunts and uncles weren't any better - they learnt from their parents after all like it sounds like your siblings have. The only reason my parents didn't go NC was because they wanted me to have a relationship with them and I wish that they had not made that decision. OP for the sake of your whole family, cut your DM and siblings out your life.

It's nasty as most other mothers would say oh course you and baby come first and what can I do to support you not put excuses excuses when it's 2 days after your due date!
Most other mothers wouldn't book a holiday for themselves two days after their daughter was due to have a baby never mind start kicking off because said daughter can't go on holiday at that time. Most mothers would want to be there to support their daughter in whatever way they could after the birth.

Wow. That was a lot to read but it sounds like you have a lot of pressure and no one is really considering you right now. That's really hard when you're pregnant.
You don't have to appease them. Just say what you think, they are going to stress you out anyway so you may as well please yourself.

Just say no.
I can see why you are stressed by this, I felt stressed reading it but you will feel so much better once you put some boundaries in place.
You don't have to do on holiday. They can go. It doesn't work for you this year.
Pull back OP

OP I wish I could put my arms around you right now. I could not ever, EVER, treating one of my children the way that you have been treated. It's just appalling.

You've said "no". The first time is always the hardest, but it will get easier.

Time to close the door and look after yourself. Even after the birth you are still going to be underweight, your energy will be depleted and you will need to recover. I wish you all the best

"Angry" varies - I don't tend to anger her if I can help it. She's, most often, angry with DF - which involves a lot of screaming and shouting, sometimes throwing things. She used to be like that with DBro growing up because he'd talk back to her but the rest of us never really did. DSis was quite confrontational with DM as a teen, mostly she'd try to control her drinking which made DM angry. I know she hit DSis on a few occasions but DSis told me once that she hit her back and she never hit her again (but DSis is older than I am so I don't really remember this).

I don't think she's been properly "angry" with me since I lived at home. One time I was sick with a stomach bug and she was angry and accused me of being pregnant, called me a "whore", slamming doors and things. Another time, when I was on study leave, it was DBro's "turn" to clear the kitchen but he'd been out with friends all day. At the time, he was taking a lot of drugs. She was angry that the kitchen hadn't been cleared by me and so yelled at me about "sitting on my arse all day" and stormed out. I said "better than taking drugs all day", thinking she couldn't hear me but she could and she came back in and hit me - but that's the only time she's hit me since I was a young child.

I can't really think of any other times I've said or done anything that makes her angry. I tend to notice if she's getting angry and try to diffuse it so she's just grumpy or annoyed instead.

As above go low contact.
There is no way I'd go on holiday anywhere a few days after having a baby. Those days are sacred for your nuclear family, and by that I mean your husband , your children and yourself. She doesn't get to interfere with those.
Your DM behaviour is not normal, and you have been conditionated to tolerate it. You might need some professional help to untangle it all, don't let your extended family to manipulate you

You're still doing it!!

Why would you 'love' to have gone? It would be the holiday from hell

You need to make any responses much briefer with fewer explanations and apologies

No, no, NO!!

They don't look forward to it and they shouldn't say they are!

You sound terrified of her OP.

Your mum sounds like she has some kind of personality disorder. She will continue to be horrible to you because you allow her to.

How can we convince you that this is no way to live a life? You only get one life, and you deserve to be happy.

For your own sanity and your family's happiness you absolutely HAVE to turn your back on her and stop engaging with her.

She will NEVER change.

OP, I think you should be really proud of yourself tonight. You've just set a boundary by saying you won't be going on the family holiday and there has been no huge fall out, the sky hasn't fallen in and your Mother has not reacted with the anger you expected. That's big... it's the first step. You don't need to reply because there was no question requiring a response. You can just let it settle even if it's a bit uncomfortable wondering what your mother is really thinking.

Tomorrow is another day. Today you did a great thing by putting your family and unborn baby first. Be pleased because I do understand how difficult that can be.

Take care of you and look after yourself. HG is beyond grim (massive understatement) and a high risk pregnancy is such a stressful time without any of the additional stresses that your mother and extended family are putting on you.

Big un-Mumsnetty hugs to you and if you can, keep building on that first step in creating healthy boundaries.

There are 238 posts on this thread from posters advising you to go low/no contact with your mum.

Why do you think that is?

It is because we all recognise that this is an extremely abusive and dysfunctional relationship, and we can recognise that even if you can't. Is there any counselling you can get to come to terms with and to help you disengage from this vile person (I make no apologies for saying that because I simply couldn't treat my daughter the way your mum treats you).

This is quite disturbing to read. Your dm is a nasty, controlling nutcase and does not deserve you at all. I'm sorry, it must be awful to have such a selfish cow for a parent but all you can do is limit contact, stick to yes or no replies and just keep your distance. Do not engage.

Make the most of your dh and dc. Good luck with the new baby, but seriously for your own sanity stop dancing to your dm's crazy tunes