To think many schools forget that lots of mums work?

[malificent7]

In primary school it was almost a given that they scheduled things in the school day which is understandable but a bit sad that when i was teaching myself, i couldn't get time off for sports day etc.

In secondary school I was chatying to a mum friend who was asked to go to a meeting during school time. She can't...she works! Not a huge issue i guess and not sure how it can be solved. As an ex teacher I wouldn't have wanted to meet parents outside school hours.

I thought teachers worked long hours though?

Yes, this.

In our case, it would also help with the gender balance of who attends what. As in many families, one parent's work (mine) is much more flexible than the other parent's (my DH's). This means that he manages to get out of many events on short notice because "Sorry, I've got meetings that day", whereas with more notice he could block out the time and he does enjoy supporting DC when he can actually go (and DC is over the moon). It also means I have more work to catch up.

Yes I agree.
It's not really formal appointments, parents evenings etc, it's more the day to day things. Lots of non-essential activities that working parents can't accomodate, and eventually the kids begin to pick up on it. It's not really the schools' fault, but I do think they assume that the vast majority of children have a SAHP, or at least part time mother parent.

I teach and there are only 2 children in my class of 29 that have both parents working within school hours. They’re P3 (8ish) but there is very little update in the after school club at school either

I agree. In our school they seem to have a sports competition every week that needs attending at the last minute. They also only let me know days before we're invited to attend because the dc are picked in teams based on their results from a previous game so no one ever seems to know what's going on.
It's stressful when my dc tells me so and so's mums were there but I just don't have time to be in school each week! As PP have said my parents attended one parents evening and one sports day a year.
One can dream!

It's not just schools. Delivery companies, utilities, many areas of business assume a person at home during the day and available.

We are given the term dates to keep in our diary. So absolutely nothing deviates from this and it works brilliantly. On the rare occurrence there was a change, they have provided many options that's convenient for the parents.

It's the short notice that gets me. It is not easy to rustle up x,y and z when you aren't a SAHP. I also dislike the tendency to call back / have parent consultations immediately when teaching finishes ie 3.30 when DS is home and I cannot discuss things properly.

I don't really understand why it isn't an option to call at lunchtime of on one of the teachers non-teaching days/times.. There are also teachers who don't routinely teach/ have dedicated classes so are there to cover should it be needed.

I do think there is a tendency to think that one parent will be SAHP or v part time. There are a surprising number of mums who don't work at DS primary or work 10 hours a week or similiar

It does depend on demographics. When my son was small I was the only mother to my knowledge who worked full-time (who had a husband/partner - there were also two mums who worked full-time because they were divorced and widowed respectively). All the other mums worked part-time or not at all. I have said on other threads that I hope this is changing - later on, both DH and I worked part-time/flexibly and still do although ds is at uni now!

It’s the notice thing for me. Fine to do x y and z, the kids love it, and I’m a SAHM so on the days I have childcare for my other child I’m happy to come in to class to help with activities or chaperone a trip or whatever. But sending a mid afternoon text on a Wednesday for a themed dress up on the Friday is a challenge for all parents. Ditto the school trip with two weeks notice that needed a financial contribution, a packed lunch (in a school where everyone has to have school meals usually), in a backpack (school prefers children to use a book bag for daily school stuff) and 3 parent helpers per class.

Not all parents have the means to produce backpacks, lunch boxes, £15 or a T-shirt in a specific colour at short notice, or rearrange work etc.
With more notice people can plan, budget, borrow etc. and I have fed this back to our headteacher.

I have always felt that schools don't factor for parents' convenience at all. I think it's because it would be impossible to accommodate everyone if they did so.

Schools don't forget that you work. They expect you to arrange time off work to attend important meetings, as you would for a medical appointment. If its not important enough for you to arrange time off, then don't attend.

Yes if some schools can do this, it clearly isn't that difficult and they all could.

Actually, I'm a teacher so fully aware of this. I accepted that I would have to miss lots of things. I sometimes asked about if they could make things more accessible for anyone who had a job with no flexibility (not just teachers) e.g. have termly class assemblies on different days so I'd he a chance to go to at least one in the year. Never happened.

And my comment about female teachers was more about the confusion and frustration they expressed when unable to go to things. As if it had never crossed their mind this would happen

School is the main affordable childcare in our society for working parents and other childcare for school-age children is structured around the school day... that's why it is called "wraparound care". It "wraps around" the childcare provided by schools.

It is disingenuous to pretend that parents don't rely on schools for childcare and our society is structured that way...we expect both parents of school-age children to be at work and they are not usually supported through the benefits system to stay home with their children.

Anyone who says school isn't childcare is ignoring societal and economic realities. Yes, the main purpose is for children to get an education but another key purpose is to enable parents to support their children financially.

I don't disagree that teachers work hard, btw.

Agree with this.

@summer22now yep. My old boss used to make me take holiday for her operations, despite us having a compassionate leave entitlement. Because, you know, as her main carer I had some kind of choice not to be at the hospital while she was undergoing general anaesthetic. Luckily, I got paid holiday, but not everyone does, and it can't be claimed back from anywhere.

I’m confused what a working day actually is? According to some teachers are at school until 7pm, others they leave at 3.30, others working 60 hour week, working weekends etc. So what actually are the contracted hours?

I had the same. Asked them to delete my mobile number and put my other half (who is a stay-at-home dad and does all school runs) first on the list.

They still always call me first.

I understand they have to hold meetings, events etc. during their working hours. Teachers work hard and as a parent I don't want overworked, stressed teachers trying to teach my child. It's the lack of notice though. I've been asked to attend meetings with less than a day's notice when I work full time. Not easy.

I don't really understand why it isn't an option to call at lunchtime of on one of the teachers non-teaching days/times.. There are also teachers who don't routinely teach/ have dedicated classes so are there to cover should it be needed.

many teachers work through their lunch, including phone calls when needed. PPA is used for meetings and things of suitable. but along with the other things that need doing that is only a small part of the use of PPA.

schools don’t have staff floating arojnd doing nothing and using supply/cover is disruptive for pupils so will be a last resort. Certainly wouldn’t expect it to be used for a meeting that could be arranged at a different time.

@YerAWizardHarry I’m interested in that!
Is that predominantly wealthier families who has chosen to have a SAHP? (SAHM..)
Or is it far less wealthy families where childcare is relatively much higher and that drives the SAHP decision?

At my child’s school - wealthy area - lots of mum are available during the day. There are a lot of higher earning professional woman who are now working part time, or have high flexibility and WFH options.

My sister’s school is in a deprived area and mum availability is also high. The typical profile driving that though, is not working as single parent (with younger children) or working part time to the minimum for UC and dad has fucked off or working in lower paid jobs with variable shifts - like Tesco - where they have some possibility to request or swap shifts.

To be absolutely clear: no judgment of single parents (I’m one) or working part time with UC. That’s fine. I’m just describing the profile.

Which is fine, when they give adequate notice, but they don't. I got a letter yesterday about a very important group meeting during working hours this coming Tuesday. I only work Mondays and Tuesdays, so I don't see my boss again until Monday (she's on holiday this week) when I'm supposed to ask for half of Tuesday off, which I can't see being possible as we're already short staffed. I've had to contact school to ask for comprehensive minutes, but not being there means I can't ask questions or express my opinion. It's a huge change that will radically affect our childrens' education that has been sprung on us without notice and the meeting to discuss it should have been outside of working hours.

This.

They don't forget, they're fully aware. But it's certainly so low on their list of priorities to the point it appears they don't care.

This.