To think many schools forget that lots of mums work?

[malificent7]

In primary school it was almost a given that they scheduled things in the school day which is understandable but a bit sad that when i was teaching myself, i couldn't get time off for sports day etc.

In secondary school I was chatying to a mum friend who was asked to go to a meeting during school time. She can't...she works! Not a huge issue i guess and not sure how it can be solved. As an ex teacher I wouldn't have wanted to meet parents outside school hours.

This old nonsense again 🙄.

Exactly.

DC at private nursery open 8-6 50 weeks a year - clearly this is aimed at people who work and they have an events calendar updated about 4 months in advance. Enough time for me to book leave or switch shifts. The most recent daytime event every single kid had a parent or other adult there.

DC at primary school 5 mins down the road - literally days of notice for things. Constant pleading emails asking parents to "be part of the community"

Our school is much better at holding meetings on teams now so when a plan needed updating I could organise an early lunch and a quiet spot in work rather than having to take a day off.

I arrange tradesmen coming to suit me or give my neighbour the key.

Non-urgent hospital/dentist appointments normally give plenty of notice (3-4 months, probably since waiting lists are so long). So it's fairly easy to arrange something.

The school's job is to provide an education , not manage parents's diaries.
I'm a single mum, no backup, but I always managed to book a day off for Sports day and an hour out for parents evening.
Parents have to take some responsibility.

I’m not entirely sure what some people on this thread are asking for, especially when it comes to events like Sports’ Day (which is always a huge logistical effort), concerts etc. Surely you either do them during the school day, when the children are alert and at their best, or you don’t do them at all? Holding them after school would mean many children (and teachers!) were either exhausted or just wouldn’t turn up, and ime most parents don’t want events held at weekends as they have other commitments.

I’m not sure this is purely a recent phenomenon either - we had numerous sports’ days, concerts and shows when I was at primary school in the ‘80s. Both my parents worked, and it was just accepted that sometimes they could come and sometimes they couldn’t. When I was teaching, things like plays and parents’ evenings generally took place in the evenings (and the latter are usually done over Zoom now anyway), and the one big weekend event was the annual summer fete.

And I can’t believe a few posters are implying that schools should not be run for the benefit of children because it’s inconvenient for them.

I do agree about the main point of contact thing - schools are often guilty of bypassing fathers and ringing mothers, even if Dad’s name is first on the list. This used to infuriate me as a teacher too. And schools should release all event dates well in advance and stick to them as far as possible.

Re playgroups and classes, as someone who has just the one preschool-aged DC I’ve been affected by the school hours and term time only thing myself, but I completely understand why they do it, and on the rare occasions when there have been classes after school or during holiday periods they’ve been nowhere near as well attended.

Most teachers do a lot of things for your children for free, they organise plan and practice in their own time - the least you could do is make a bit of effort.

yeah zoom or teams is the way forwards, with a recording for those who couldn't make it. It's not hard to set up and could be done in lunch hour or something.

I agree with others, it's not unreasonable having some things in the working day, but there should be plenty of notice and if it's not essential there shouldn't be an expectation or assumption that parents can always attend. And it would be good if they could occasionally do the odd thing out of school hours.

Our school aren't the worst but they used to do a weekly prize thing where parents could attend if your child was getting a prize. It was at 9.30 and was announced the afternoon before. I think that was just unhelpful, I have a very flexible job for things like that but I still couldnt rearrange a meeting with a couple of hours notice for purely personal reasons

It's nonsense in your mind but you don't explain why? I am not a teacher by the way but they work hard and already work plenty of times past their core hours. Why should they work more? And it isn't childcare. That's a fact.

My DC’s school try to accommodate working parents as much as possible which I really appreciate. They always have an evening performance of school productions, parents evening generally has slots up till 5:30 and they had a 5pm zoom meeting specifically for those who couldn’t make it into school in the morning for a school trip meeting. There’s still inevitably some things working parents won’t be able to attend like the summer and Christmas fair for example but they let children take money in and still attend with a teacher so they don’t miss out. I think it’s because the headteacher has young children and understands.

Curious as to what you do now and why you left? I’m a soon to be ex teacher hopefully 👏🏼 Hate the lack of flexibility that comes with being a teacher, you can’t even go to the doctors which is ridiculous!

It depends on the school, DH is a teacher (admittedly he was armed forces previously so his standards for flexibility are low)- but he has been to appointments during the day without a huge issue, he has a supportive SLT as well and enjoys work- his first school was the opposite though and he hated it. I do think there's some idealisation of other careers though which isn't the case, but I'm sure they soon find out. The biggest issue is the vast majority of jobs are crap now yet nothing is done about it.

Things during schools hours don't bother me.

I also work education and I'm a LP so see it from both sides.

What bothers me is when they organise these show and tell afternoons or whatever and they treat the children who don't have parents attend differently.

My school manage not to do that and I think those that do are lazy and aren't thinking outside the box.

And it punishes children who have working parents because of income, or those who have parents who don't attend through choice or because they have disability or something.

Around the turn of the century, legislation was introduced saying schools had to have clear links with their communities. This is where all this stems from. It was meant to be a positive thing……

Go on, take a guess what "lunch hour" is for....

I wouldn't expect the teachers to stay late or work weekends, but for me it was the volume in quick succession of in-school events (at primary school) that parents were expected to attend.
Leading up to Christmas or last week of term there might be 3 events in a week or 5 in a fortnight. I had to prioritise the ones that were most important for my child that I attended but I did feel bad not going to some, as my DS class in particular had lots of SAHM and dad's that wfh and seemed able to come to lots of events. I am lucky and can occassionally wfh (although not always and not multiple days/week) but a friend works in a shop on a 3 week rota. She can't do half a shift, and has to request days off 3 weeks ahead.

And I do have a few friends that are teachers who do seem to forget that most other jobs don't have half term and school holidays. One friend is always asking if I'm free during the day time in HT.

I’m not entirely sure what some people on this thread are asking for

Notice.

Notice is what we are asking for. Awards given in assemblies that parents can attend are given 24hrs notice etc. Frequently we are given less than a weeks notice for events (such as shows and special events) where I bet the school have actually had the date for far longer.

It’s much easier for me to schedule a zoom meeting with school during my working hours than to try to talk when the kids are home!!

But my work is flexible (somewhat) so it suits me. I think its resonable of the school to ask though.

they do ask me first though, and not DH!!!

For meetings surely Microsoft teams etc has stopped that issue? Annual reviews of EHCP/child protection conferences etc have been done on this with schools and are unlikely to ever go back to full face to face.

I did get annoyed when new head at primary changed class assembly slot from first thing Friday (you were finished by 9.20 so working parents could go in late) to wednesday 2.30 which is far harder to arrange and took a much bigger chunk of leave. I think I did mention at parents evening by the lack of notice for some things "just pop into class tomorrow afternoon to see our fabulous work" meant even the most flexible work couldn't accommodate.

That said I don't really expect teachers to stay in all evening. Surely parents evening is enough.

Of course things like sport days etc are held in school time. These and other celebrations/events are set when children are in school for their benefit. If these where evening events far less children would be able to attend due to other responsibilities and caring for other children. Let's not forget these events are for the children run at a time which suits them.

I don't know what parents expect. The teachers are not allowed to go outside the school without sufficient numbers to ensure the safety of the children. This isn't something they can just ignore because they don't have the parents to help. If they can't do special events without parental support, then they just can't run them. Its that simple. Yet if they don't get the parental support, I can guarentee there would be complaints and whinging about the lack of sports day.

Last year, there was an almighty load of complaints about ours being closed to parents to watch. I do find it interesting that magically all these working parents who are unavailable to help with other activities suddenly all manage to turn up for sports day and the class performance.

Its almost as if parents can't be arsed, unless its a 'nice thing'.

Also if we want to go down the road of 'but they are all staffed by women, yet don't understand working parents' I do love the cognitive dissonance of then expecting these working parent teachers who are supposed to magic up child care for the convenience of other parents so they can do things after working hours (and don't get paid for the privilege of doing these extra hours outside their normal working days).

The reality is there isn't an alternative solution. Working parents are always going to have to deal with the issue one way or another.

Teams is good but I’m pleased that DS ehcp review was back face to face. Somethings like that are easier in person

Secondary school is far better than our primary school in giving parents notice / offering evening events.

It seems like our primary school expects everyone to be available at the drop of a hat!

This was one positive to Covid