To think the stigmatisation of borderline personality disorder is awful

[PonderingBPD]

Most people with BPD have experienced alot of trauma, typically during childhood, hence the disorder which has alot of parallels to complex PTSD. It's not something people choose to have and is actually soul destroying to live with.

Why are people with the condition spoken of and thought of so negatively? It's essentially victim blaming.

AIBU?

I went to the doctors with prolonged depression about 7 years ago. I had been feeling suicidal for a while and had suffered from bouts of severe depression since my teens, had a very traumatic childhood, and thought I might have BPD as a result. Very needy in relationships, very turbulent relationships, and having no real sense of self and relying on the love of a man and my relationship to define my worth. I would literally feel suicidal if we broke up, and would argue on and on to try to get my partner to behave as I wanted, to get him back. I don't think I met all the criteria though - one of these being reckless behaviours eg. promiscuous, drug taking etc which was not me at all, I'm far too anxious. Also being histrionic, when in fact I think I'm the opposite and bottle up any kind of distress more than most people until it finally all comes bursting out. I also don't think I was capable of being manipulative, as I was very socially naive.

Anyway, for my 'diagnosis' I went to see the mental health nurse and filled out a 40 question survey, from which they came back and said I had BPD and they signed me up for group therapy for 'raising distress tolerance'. A few things just didn't feel right with me being 'diagnosed' after filling out only 40 questions on a survey with a nurse, especially as I had pretty much self-diagnosed and they'd just readily gone along with it. After more reading I suspected that in addition to trauma, I might in fact be on the spectrum, as it fitted with a lot of other symptoms I had, and I made an appointment with the psychiatrist to see if he'd refer me for the diagnostic process. From the beginning of the appointment he was completely frosty with me, I felt I was under suspicion as though I was playing a manipulative BPD game with him. He told me after asking me nothing related to autism that I had just found a list on the internet and 'anyone can have those symptoms'. Actually, I'd read about 30 books on autism and in particular the descriptions of its presentation in females rang true for my symptoms in ways that BPD could not explain. I think I had a trauma response and perhaps had a 'lite' version of BPD, but autism seemed far more likely. Anyway, I don't know whether or not I now have a diagnosis of BPD on my record or not - is that literally all it takes for a diagnosis? If so, I would like to finally be assessed properly as I don't want the stigma of a BPD diagnosis on my records. There shouldn't be a stigma, but there is, as shown by the psychiatrist. I haven't had a relationship for 9 years, and as those with BPD are supposed to go from partner to partner I don't see how I fit this profile.

Not an expert OP, but the symptoms you describe sound like they overlap somewhat with BPD but aren't the same thing.

All BPD situations I am aware of, when untreated and without having gone through extensive therapy, involve harming, blaming, criticising, or abusing other people, and a refusal to take responsibility for their actions twinned with a conviction that they are always the victim. That doesn't sound like you at all.

I think the 'manipulative' label comes from the feeling that the person can ultimately choose their behaviour. That's not to say there aren't reasons or factors that can trigger them, but somewhere deep down there is a choice and an understanding that they are causing pain - to avoid taking responsibility, to avoid feeling their own hurt, or to get attention. While these are fuelled by a deep sense of worthlessness and abandonment, this is rarely acknowledged. Instead, everything is someone else's fault.

In terms of controlling their behaviour for example, my ex MIL would be screaming at us, apparently in an uncontrollable level of panic and distress (Eg over mislaying her car keys), someone would call on the phone and she would pick up and be completely capable of speaking calmly and pleasantly, before putting down the phone and continuing to abuse us. In terms of always being the victim, same EX MIL, on finding out that her son had cheated on me , declared "no he hasn't betrayed you, he has betrayed ME!" then proceeded to wail and expect me to comfort her for hours. She also couldn't stand not being the centre of attention, for example having some of her worst episodes around our wedding, when she declared she was going to stand up in the middle of our ceremony and denounce some ex boyfriend if hers, was "too distressed" to think about buying us a wedding present or even a card, and yet not so distressed that she couldn't shop for two designer outfits, so she turned up looking fabulous.

Sorry - it may be that there are many forms of BPD and some don't involve this kind of mistreatment of others, but I'm afraid my experience has left me with scars. The 'caring' type of people who try to hang on in there, walking on eggshells to try to always get it right, often end up completely depleted and sometimes abused.

Her behaviours were very in line with so many experiences of BPD that I hear about.... (though not even on the extreme end). I don't think these sound in line with how you describe your own actions or the level of self awareness and responsibility you are expressing in your posts.

I think the anology with autism isn't quite right. For me, it's more like an analogy with a drug addict who keeps driving under the influence and bashing into people. Yes addiction is a disease, and yes there may be many complicated reasons for them becoming addicts, and I have huge admiration for anybody who overcomes it and takes responsibility for it. I also have huge sympathy for addicts who can't escape but don't harm others. But at the point they are consistently harming others, while insisting none of it is their fault? Well I'm not going to put a lot of energy into condemning them, but I would certainly prefer I don't have those people in my life unless I have to.

The shame is the worst isn't it?

I quite literally hate myself after an episode and genuinely feel that I'd be doing my family a favour if I weren't here anymore.

Whilst you wait for the joke that is CBT, I recommend buying "The dialectical behavioural therapy workbook" on amazon, I'll look up the author in a minute for you. DH bought it for me and it goes over alot of what you'll learn in in-person DBT. It costs about 15 pounds.

www.planetneurodivergent.com/the-link-between-autism-and-borderline-personality-disorder/amp/

Are you new to Mumsnet? Autistic people are accused of being abusive all the time! Especially men. Any asshole behaviour, people ask "is he autistic?" and any autistic trait gets "he's controlling/abusive. Autism is no excuse. LTB." ASD is seen as very negative.

I have a loved one whose partner has BPD and he makes her life a misery - moods, verbal abuse, inability to hold down a job and impulsive spending so running up serious debt. They also refuse treatment. Their illness means that this poor behaviour is excused and the threats of harm if the other one leaves mean they're basically held hostage. It's difficult to be sympathetic to him when it's an illness that can be managed.

I'd disagree that there is no longer a stigma around bi-polar etc - there are way too many videos on social media of people having episodes and being filmed and laughed at/abused.

...just remembered some of the things the psychiatrist was asking me. When I was feeling suicidal and made a noose, he asked me if I lived with anyone else and seemed to find it hard to believe that I was preparing for a suicide attempt without an audience. He was also asking me about being in touch with my family, which I hadn't been, and who I had been estranged from for 15 years at the time, now 20 years. It didn't seem to matter what I said, I was under suspicion, so if it's like this with a psychiatrist it must be 10 times worse with anyone else who knows/thinks you have BPD. People just aren't sympathetic to it. That said, I've met a few people with BPD and they are indeed very difficult to deal with, constant attention seeking, grandiosity and then trying to hurt you with nasty comments when you fail to meet their expectations. I personally wouldn't want to have friends or partners with the condition, too difficult. That doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic, and there needs to be the right kind of therapy available, as well as therapy for trauma generally. I've had NHS counselling of 6 weeks at a time at various times in my life and if anything it made matters worse. One size fits all therapy does not work and undermines the trust of the patient in the therapeutic process. It certainly has for me. I really don't know what to do now to try and get help, I mainly just read self-help books as it feels like the safest and most effective way to help myself. The NHS is fucking useless.

I've been here a few months but I usually hang out on the style and beauty boards so I haven't seen what you describe. That's quite upsetting to read actually, being the mother of a boy with autism.

Society seemed to have come such a long way with autism awareness and acceptance 🙁

I am autistic. I have been treated like fucking shit in my life. I’ve been bullied out of 3 jobs because my autism is viewed as an inconvenience and I am “a problem”. There are hundreds of threads on here that show autism awareness and understanding is non existent. I am constantly expected to be “normal” and when I struggle to mask in an environment that is geared to normal people it’s my fault that I can’t.

so many threads on here start with my husband is horrible to me, he does this etc and within the first 5 posts there’s ALWAYS a response “he’s probably autistic”. I’ve never seen “oh he must have BPD”.

Dont presume to tell people with autism what their experiences are with being stigmatised when you’re not autistic. By all means talk about YOUR experience with BPD but don’t diminish someone else with a different condition to make yourself look more of a victim.

I'm sorry, I was clearly being extremely ignorant. It was a bad comparison to draw.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5590952/

Sorry you had a bad experience but this is really untrue. I have BPD and have spent time in group therapy (DBT) with many other people with BPD and I also spent some time as an inpatient in an eating disorder clinic and there were many girls there with a BPD diagnosis.

All BPD situations I am aware of, when untreated and without having gone through extensive therapy, involve harming, blaming, criticising, or abusing other people, and a refusal to take responsibility for their actions twinned with a conviction that they are always the victim. That doesn't sound like you at all.

this paragraph here is the stigma people are talking about. I am not like that, many of the many people I have met with BPD are not like that. Some are yes. I have met some who are really, really badly like this. But many of us are not like this at all. I have never abused anyone in my entire life. The only person I have ever abused is myself and I bend over backwards trying to please everyone which causes drama for me because I physically cannot please everyone. There are many people with BPD like me and it’s comments like this which are really frustrating.

I haven’t RTFT but I agree with your op the stigma towards that diagnosis is awful. I work in healthcare and I’ve come across lots of prejudice amongst staff who work with people with it, it’s a joke.

the diagnosis itself tells you barely anything about the person and yet so many assumptions are made.

This comment perfectly summarises what OP is saying ie stigmatisation. You have met one person with BPD and she was not representative of everyone with the condition. There are not different types of BPD, it manifests in everyone differently.

A quick Google will show you that it mainly groups into 4 different areas:

emotional instability – the psychological term for this is affective dysregulation
disturbed patterns of thinking or perception – cognitive distortions or perceptual distortions
impulsive behaviour
intense but unstable relationships with others

We tend to only hear of the severe cases of BPD. You probably know people with BPD who haven’t told you about it because they fear they will be labelled manipulative, rageful and abusive. As far as rage or abuse goes, for most people with BPD that will only be directed towards themselves and they are the only person they are a danger to.

so many threads on here start with my husband is horrible to me, he does this etc and within the first 5 posts there’s ALWAYS a response “he’s probably autistic”. I’ve never seen “oh he must have BPD”.

You are wrong about this. It is usually only brought up when there is a set of behaviours that other people recognise from the autistic people on their lives. It isn't pulled out of people's arses like so many suggest. It's always brought up threads like this by people that don't seem to be able to see the nuances.

That I'm incapable of empathy. That I am incapable of loving another human being or be in a relationship. That I'm a literal child. That I'm stupid. That I am incapable of human interaction. That any problem I have with other people is likely because I don't understand them. That I should never reproduce. That I'm incapable of feeling physical pain. That I'm embarrassing, should get a grip, can't work, should work, need to stay with my own kind, be more involved with 'normal' people, am a .

Nobody accommodates my meltdowns/shutdowns. People tell me to get a grip. As soon as I tell a healthcare professional I'm autistic, they change their entire demeanor around me. Start doing the baby voice. Assume all of my health problems are in my head. Not all of them of course, but often enough. I'm sorry you are going through a difficult time, but for your son's sake and perhaps your DHs too, please don't be under the illusion that ASD isn't stigmatised. It definitely is.

I'm sorry, I was wrong. Please accept my sincere apology.

I think there is a separation between people who have personality disorders who recognise they have these and work hard to manage the impact and those who have them but refuse to acknowledge them.

I know two people in the former category, both of whom I am glad to have in my life. My mother is in the second group. I haven't spoken to her in more than a year and it is a relief. She has alienated everyone but her horrid partner, lost her career and run up huge debts. I hope this rock bottom may one day trigger a spark of self awareness before she hurts even more people.

I have bpd. I choose who I tell. I was diagnosed in 2013. I didn't find out until a year later. After years of fighting to get some help and being told to just see my go for depression and anxiety something happened and I was allocated a psychiatrist. He told me that being diagnosed much later (i'm 47 now) would mean I would always be unwell to an extent. This is proving to be true. It's a frightening illness.

You're right I think there is a stigma attached to Borderline PD. The Amber Heards of the world don't exactly help the image.

I recently learned about a subset called Quiet Borderline, they tend to turn their negativity inwards rather than projecting it onto others. I strongly suspect this is what I have.

Sorry if this has already been covered, I'm going back to read the full thread.

Quiet Borderline:

www.instagram.com/p/CTNVTibDXP5/

Try again...

www.healthline.com/health/quiet-bpd#complications

Haven’t RTFT (yet - MN threads about BPD tend to be pretty horrifyingly full of ignorance and prejudice so I need to be in the right frame of mind before I dive in!)

I have BPD. I work for the NHS in a co-produced team (clinicians working alongside people with loved experience) in a new personality disorder pathway. It’s primary care level - aimed to bridge the gap you mentioned OP between GP level and CMHT level. People are referred to us via their GP. We offer a number of different DBT/MBT/STEPPS based courses which are delivered by people with BPD themselves (who are in recovery) and clinicians.

We have been running nearly two years now and it’s been so successful we are expanding, and other Trusts elsewhere in the country are looking to replicate our service.

I also tackle the stigma from the other angle by teaching (again with a clinician) a specific BPD course for clinicians and professionals.

I know it feels like nothing is changing, but it is. It’s just a slooooow process. But I see the changes myself in my own, Trust and through talking to other professionals wider. Our team are going to a National PD conference for professionals/researchers/interested parties. That would never have even existed a few years back.

The person I know with BPD has self diagnosed. Blames everything on BPD. & does very little self help, the family do everything they can to help but its not enough. When it's good it's fine when it's bad it's awful.

Having had more than one relationship with a DP who had bpd I noticed a similarity where they both needed to control the narrative around themselves and any accountability was never accepted just blame attributed, one DP would always say he was self aware least self aware person I'd ever met and totally lacking in empathy and he would turn his anger inward, never mind me and his family having to clean up after he'd turn his anger inward or having to walk on eggshells so that he didn't turn his anger inward, the last one I don't think I'm prepared to emotionally talk about yet but he has ruined what little mental health I had left, there's a very good resource for those who are living with partners who have BPD, it's a website called bpdfamily without it I don't think I'd have had the strength to get away this last time