To think the stigmatisation of borderline personality disorder is awful

[PonderingBPD]

Most people with BPD have experienced alot of trauma, typically during childhood, hence the disorder which has alot of parallels to complex PTSD. It's not something people choose to have and is actually soul destroying to live with.

Why are people with the condition spoken of and thought of so negatively? It's essentially victim blaming.

AIBU?

Oh no no, my husband has never said anything of the sort. It's just the picture I get from society in general. Online, overhearing other people, discussions had with others (who arent aware i have it so dont mince their words). Forums, videos, etc.

The Amber Heard saga certainly hasn't helped things.

OP are you able to give some examples of what symptoms you have, if it’s not too personal? Has your husband said what he finds difficult?

It is completely wrong for your husband to say he can’t help his behaviour but you’re being manipulative. If someone has a condition they can’t help, then they can’t help it whatever it is.

I think the problem with the stigma for BPD is everyone always assumes manipulative and volatile, whereas I believe that for many BPD sufferers they do not behave like this but get tarred with the same brush.

Sorry cross posted. I see your husband hasn’t said that but other people.

This. Same as autism. I'm autistic.

@Bonheurdupasse I thought you explained it well too.

OP you don't have to answer this, but are you sure you have BPD and not complex PTSD? If you are arriving at this diagnosis for yourself based on reading stuff off the internet, so much of it is horribly out of date.

There are a lot more treatments for PTSD and other MH issues. All hope is not lost.

When I was training in MH we were told to avoid taking clients with BPD if we could, since they were so hard to work with and unlikely to get better. Then DBT came along, but as you have said, OP, it is vastly under developed. Even more than other types of MH treatment. I have worked with a lot of people who have this diagnosis (or Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder as it is starting to be called, which I hate) and found many of them charming and lovely. I think there are a bunch of reasons it is stigmatized. 1. it is hard to work with, and until DBT, there was really nothing that seemed to help. So the chances your clients would kill themselves was really high and that was incredibly stressful (not saying it was great for the clients either, of course, but MH work affects the professionals as well. 2. It is, IMO, vastly over diagnosed and given to a lot of people who are more unpleasant than mentally unwell or struggling, so that impacts people who genuinely have this diagnosis. 3. It is given to way more women then men, and misogyny also plays a part. 4. It is extremely upsetting to be on the other end of the rage than can be part of this and most people would prefer not to be around it. All areas of MH are underfunded, but DBT desperately needs money putting into it.

Yet there is no stigma attached to autism. Autism isn't something people are made to feel ashamed of

To be fair, you don’t know what he endured during his childhood. You are aware of the obvious trauma arising from the accident, but lots of trauma is less visible. Growing up in a neglectful or otherwise abusive family can cause PTSD, so can bullying, poverty.. all sorts of things. And being traumatised once makes a person more susceptible to secondary trauma. Who knows what was said to your brother at the time?

I think it’s important to understand that just because we cannot “see” another person’s trauma, it doesn’t mean they don’t have it.

Having said this, I was told by a psychologist that all personality disorders are viewed negatively by MH professionals which I found a bit sad.

You can give someone with hypoglycemia treatment and it will resolve it's self pretty quickly. That doesn't work for BPD it's a very long recovery process.

Absolutely, but I still think the language used indicates that, in many people's minds, bpd=horrible and abusive. It is unfair stigma.

Behaving in harmful ways (to self/ others) is one of the diagnostic criteria for BPD.

Yes, but I dont think the stigma is about people with bpd harming themselves. I think there's an assumption they harm others, which isn't the case for most people.

It is easier to understand bpd as an experience of chronic and intolerable emptiness and distress for which people understandably seek comfort.

My mum was diagnosed with BPD. She was extremely abusive, manipulative, violent, and sadistic to us as children. But she didn't see it because in her mind she was always the victim. All of her children have CPTSD.

It's a personality disorder so the issue is literally with the personality. It's nothing like hypoglycaemia which might cause out of character behaviour that can be easily fixed.

I feel for people with BPD but others don't deserve abuse either.

Sure, I don't mind.

So I don't handle stress well and get upset / angry easily. I have alot of self loathing and don't feel good enough for anybody, or anything really. Things that most people can just brush off tend to really hurt me, such as a stranger being rude in a supermarket for example - most people will just roll their eyes but for me I have quite a deep emotional response to it and can be reduced to tears.

When I have an episode I tend to retreat into myself, shut myself away, rather than screaming and shouting at people. The anger is always directed inwards.

I have a huge fear of abandonment which stems from (quite literally) being abandoned as a child, that manifests itself as me putting up with things other people wouldn't dream of, such is the fear of being alone. I stayed in a violent relationship (not DH) for 6 years because the fear of being alone was worse than the physical beatings.

I'm prone to depressive episodes and suicidal ideation, although I don't openly speak about the latter because I'm aware people would see it as being manipulative.

I have strong impulses to self harm which I manage with techniques I learned from my DBT workbook.

Black and white thinking and splitting - somebody is either all good or all bad. If somebody does something to upset me then I can only see them through that lense for a period of time. I lack the ability to look at the bigger picture. There's no grey area which is frustrating as hell because we all know life isn't black and white.

Similarly if somebody has done something bad to me, but later on they're kind or do something good, the bad is all forgotten and they're a great person (even if the bad is something that has caused me significant harm) there's no grey area.

I'm a huge people pleaser and tie myself in knots trying to make people like me as I feel as though I need external validation. I have cripplingly low self esteem.

My husband would tell you that the hardest part of living with me is never knowing what mood I'm going to be in from one day to the next, which I acknowledge must be trstinf so I do my best to mitigate any effect this has on him (and my DC) by removing myself from the situation if I feel angry or overwhelmed.

Having said this, I was told by a psychologist that all personality disorders are viewed negatively by MH professionals which I found a bit sad.

What a horrible thing for them to say! I sought to work on a unit with people with personality disorders for my first role as a staff nurse because it is an interesting and rewarding area, and also was, at that time, at the cutting edge of research. So this definitely isn't true.

QED.

The development of PTSD is not determined like that - otherwise 100% of people in a war would develop PTSD, but it's actually under 20% despite having all been in the same traumatic scenario.

There is research that has been conducted on groups of people who were all in the exact same traumatic scenario (e.g. car crash) following their outcomes - some develop PTSD, some develop severe PTSD, some don't.

Your comment is ignorant and prejudiced - it comes from the same school of thought as those who call a rape victim a liar because she didn't cry when recounting what happened.

It's a good question.

The reason I suspect BPD rather than complex PTSD is the intense fear of abandonment.

I was actually diagnosed with PTSD following a birth trauma some years ago, but the other issues I have have been around for as long as I can remember. Way back to being around 12.

DBT which is the gold standard treatment for it is nigh on impossible to access through the NHS unless somebody does something drastic and ends up being sectioned and even then the waiting lists are astronomical.

This. It's chronically underfunded and impossible to access unless you have significant risks of harm... at which point you get sucked into cycles of inappropriately risk adverse care which can cause iatrogenic harm, and then excluded from accessing it now that your risks are "too high". Ridiculous.

For what it's worth, not all MH professionals stigmatise against people with PDs. But we are frustrated with an inadequate system which can't meet the demands on it.

I would strongly dispute that behavioural characteristics of borderline personality disorder and anything at all like cptsd!

I’m glad that you have a different viewpoint. I guess it must be an issue though if she made a point of raising it. Hopefully things are changing.

Ok so my mum had bpd and my son has autism.

I think you are wrong that’s there’s no stigma attached to autistic behaviours. In fact I think autism is usually the excuse given for lots of poor behaviour, even when it’s not autism. Lots of ‘self diagnosed’ abusive people around. I know it’s hard to get an adult diagnosis but lots of people don’t even try and just keep hurting the people around them and expect it to accepted. And lots of people oblige and agree with them.

I do agree there is some stigma attached to BPD. My mum had the childhood trauma (her brother died from SIDS at 3 months) along with an emotionally abusive father.

My mum died last year, really out of the blue. I can’t even talk to a counsellor properly about her because it would make her sound awful. And she wasn’t she was sick and in the 80s there was no support. My mum loved me and my sibling so much. I loved her and feel like my life is over. But my childhood held a lot of abuse. Mum was sectioned once. At a facility so poor she escaped. Her and my dad split up she moved us around and he couldn’t find us. When he did, they got back together because dad felt we (the kids) needed the support.

But he couldn’t do it all. Things still impacted us. Like the time I had a friend over after school and got home to mum having pulled the entire contents of my wardrobe out and dumping it in my bed because it wasn’t in the order she wanted. Then told me I couldn’t do anything until I cleared it up so she sat downstairs grilling my friend because she needed to know everything I did and who I spoke to. Dad was at work.

Alot of the things she did were for attention, like I couldn’t go out without her causing drama and me having to come home. The first time she met my first proper boyfriend she stood and screamed that he was obviously far too old for me. He was 4 months older than me. There was melt downs and self harming when I wouldn’t just roll over and accept her behaviour as I got older. I was a good teen. Good grades. Never in trouble. Because I knew not to cause anymore but at 15-17 I didn’t know how to handle her, but when I stood up for myself she would lose it and threaten to Kill herself and say how much I must hate her, until I broke down and accepted whatever she wanted.

I decided not to go to uni, as she wouldn’t let me live away. I started working full time, saved up bought a house at 19 and left. I now know that that caused lots of problems and dad shielded me from how bad it was. As did my older brother, who moved out soon after.

Around the time I got pregnant she did finally accept the diagnosis and get counselling and took her meds. She was so much better and the best Nana I could ask for, for my children. But my childhood was traumatic. I haven’t even mentioned 1% here.

as a result I entered an abusive marriage at 20, that I finally got out of in my 30s. I didn’t even realise how bad it was until I was over 30. I detach very easily. I can compartmentalise to a point where I don’t deal with things. Stress builds up and it’s made me sick. I am independent to an extreme. To a point, I don’t have complete adult relationships. I live my Dp, but I refuse to be dependent financially or emotionally on him. I don’t believe, he really loves me. I don’t let him see my vulnerable. Friends don’t know me as well as they think. They don’t know about my childhood, or how I am not coping with mums death. I pushed them all away. My kids are the centre of everything and I have lived my life making sure they don’t live how I did. Dd is 18 and I think I have done a good job, though obviously make my own mistakes. I am determined they never feel beholden to me but completely supported by me. That they feel the priority.

So while I wouldn’t outwardly stigmatise BPD, I would never be involved with someone who had it. I would leave someone diagnosed with it.

I have been diagnosed with ptsd, due to my childhood and struggle every day. Especially now she had died.

I adored my mum. We had a much better relationship in the last half of my life. But that doesn’t erase what I went through.

My own opinion is that regardless of why someone acts how they do, regardless of the diagnosis if you are abusing someone, they should leave. Even if it’s temporary while the other person gets it’s under control. I see why people stay when the other person is working really hard. But my advice would be to leave, at least until they can show they can manage their behaviour and stop the abuse.

Yes, my mum was a victim of her dad. A victim of her mums breakdown when her brother died. But then I ended up being a victim of it too. I have the right to not want to a victim of others peoples trauma anymore.

I also don’t believe bpd is stigmatised anymore that other conditions.

They are very, very similar.

It is not coincidental that the BPD label is disproportionately applied to female victims of trauma.

The number of developed countries that even accept it as a valid diagnosis is small. The evidence base used to justify it in the UK and US is shocking, and rejected by professionals in those countries too.

It is our century's "hysteria" .

@Andromachehadabadday

What a terrible time you have had.

I hope that one day you can trust your therapist enough to talk through some of this. 🌸

I'm going to leap in with both feet and risk being disablist and prejudiced against people with autism now...

I suspect the reason you find your own mental health hard to manage may be because you are married to a man with autism.

How are your relationships outside the home? Some people with autism find it hard to be a supportive partner because their own diagnosis means that may not come naturally- and may not be easily learned.

You may need a level of support he isn't able to offer, and you will perceive that as rejection. That's very hard.

Thank you for sharing this, and I'm really sorry that you had such a difficult childhood.

I don't blame you for feeling the way you do, after everything you saw and went through. Its only natural you would want to avoid anybody associated to the condition which had such an impact on your life.

I don't want to silence people speaking from a place of personal experience. BPD or not, nobody should be abused and the diagnosis isn't an excuse.

I have no issues with friendships, I've had the same couple of friends for around 15 years. There isn't the ups and downs with them, that there is with DH, or my mother.

It's the close interpersonal relationships I struggle with, but then I'm quite an isolated person in general so don't have a wide sphere to reference from.

It can certainly be difficult having a relationship with DH as he doesn't have much affective empathy, whereas I feel everything ten fold.