To think my sister should get a refund?

[dinglisert]

So my Sister did a PGCE last year, she failed her second placement and had to undertake and additional placement the following Autumn which she also failed. Therefore a lot a money was spent on a qualification which she did not receive. Who decides to complete a PGCE and not receive a teaching qualification in the end. Just so you know my sister worked very hard and has ASD and Dyspraxia, she isn't lazy as some people might think she is due to her not passing.

AIBU to think DS sister should get given a refund, maybe not the whole amount as she did pass her uni assignments so she got awarded a PGCE but without QTS. But seriously, a PGCE with no QTS? You have to be honest it is a pointless award which no one will take seriously, in other words its worthless.

I have several dyslexic colleagues, all of whom passed their PGCE and gained QTS. They ask other colleagues to proof read external communications, and are open with students about being dyslexic.
QTS requires the teacher standards to be met. If someone can't meet them, they shouldn't pass.

But she passed the PGCE, she just didn’t get the QTS. She can still put PGCE on her CV, and it’s still a serious postgrad qualification that will be valued by other employers.

This is, in essence, the main failing of the marketisation of higher education. People think that they are paying for a qualification rather than paying to enroll and study. Thus we see grade inflation and erosion of standards because students cannot cope with the idea that after paying for a course they might not make the grade.

No. Your sister should not be entitled to a refund unless she can demonstrate that the university are at fault either in the way they provided the tuition (will be difficult as she had two attempts at the placement), or by letting her on the course in the first place.

And that some uni staff are not letting them know early enough, that they are wasting their money.

You can take a horse to water ...

It's clear that @dinglisert has flounced off but I hope the combined experience of teachers, university lecturers and parents on this thread will help her to see that she her sister has skills & talents, but not for teaching!

A million times this. I am sick and tired of mentoring trainees who have no intention of teaching but did it for the bursary, or who are completely unsuited and need to fail.

In over 15 years of mentoring student nurses, I failed two students on placement. One never turned up and the other was bloody dangerous!

The university make it incredibly difficult for us to fail students, we are expected to justify ourselves.

I was wrung over the coals for not teaching catheterisation to the one who never turned up. She had a 30% attendance and personally I like to see them do the basics before I let them do invasive procedures on patients. They wanted to know why I couldn't find time. I spent 3 hours in the dean's office having to justify myself.

It's much easier to pass a student than to fail one. If your sister failed two it's for a reason.

Depends on the uni. There's one in particular in the North East that is notorious for poor-quality teaching and support. My school refuses to take trainees from there anymore sadly.

It's not usual to get your money back if you fail a course.
What is normal is that you have to pay to retake it, again with no guarantee of passing it.

It is quite clear the OP is "the sister" and it is even clearer to see why she failed!

A woman demanded a refund from me once because her friend ate her food.

These people walk among us unfortunately.

@restedbutexhausted That's ridiculous! I had the opposite problem once. A restaurant insisted I pay for a dessert that they had wrongly given to another table. By the time we had worked out what had happened the diner had eaten it and left! No, I wouldn't pay.

Yikes! If I'd done that I'd be inviting the party back for a meal on the house.

I feel like this is reverse coz clearly nobody would think that really?

Why would she get a refund? You don’t get a refund for taking your driving test if you fail

She wasn’t good enough to pass the course. It doesn’t matter how hard she worked - she is apparently not cut out for teaching. She didn’t pay for a qualification, she paid for tuition.

I have dyspraxia. I can ask for certain adjustments (although in practice I never do) but it doesn’t mean I get awarded a qualification for something I’m not capable of. My dyspraxia makes me absolutely shit at swimming, which is not my fault, but it still doesn’t mean I should get a free pass to become a lifeguard or a refund on my swimming lessons.

This…there are many components to teaching as well as meeting the teaching standards. This is achieved by responding to feedback from a mentor to develop and achieve this standards. If this didn’t happen on two successive placements, then QTS cannot be awarded.

She paid for the course. She attended the course. Whether she passed or failed she has ‘consumed’ what she paid for and it’s laughable to even consider she should get a ref7d.

She knew her diagnosed problems before applying for the course, and surely knew teaching is a very demanding career requiring a lot of physical and social stamina and skill. She took a gamble and lost.

She isn't due any compensation for losing money on a gamble.

I've been a teacher for 15 years now, and honestly look back on my PGCE in horror at the memories! Apart from the friends, who I'm still in touch with now, I hated every single minute of it. I really struggled with it, despite working all the hours I could, but I now know it's because I had undiagnosed ADHD. I was only officially diagnosed about 18 months ago now.

Your poor, poor sister though... Unfortunately, she's got no leg to stand on regarding a refund, but I'd like to think the uni could advise her on other ways she could get the QTS part? But a 2-time failure perhaps sounds like she isn't terribly well suited to the grass roots teaching part of the job? It won't be exclusively the uni saying she wasn't up to standard. It would have been at least 2 school-based mentors, plus multiple uni employees seeing her in action, to determine the standard wasn't high enough. I know they don't make the decision to fail someone lightly.

She’s paid to go on a course which she’s failed ………. Twice. Why should she get a refund? She’s failed the course, not the course has failed her.

I went to a fee paying school
I failed my Maths A Level ....should I have asked for a fee refund ...No !!!!

Sorry for your sister though - it must have been terrible for her.
I hope she finds something that suits her much better.

My son has also failed his placement - he has dysgraphia. He had a teaching job lined up so he's gutted he can't work. He's allowed to repeat in January Is there such a thing as a private pgce mentor who can support him privately with tutoring as his confidence is very low? If not any ideas of what sort of jobs to change careers as i think it highly unlikely he will pass his placement without a lot of support

If he can't pass his placement without support, what kind of support was he going to receive in the job he was being offered?

He would have started 2 years of training to complete pgce