To think my sister should get a refund?

[dinglisert]

So my Sister did a PGCE last year, she failed her second placement and had to undertake and additional placement the following Autumn which she also failed. Therefore a lot a money was spent on a qualification which she did not receive. Who decides to complete a PGCE and not receive a teaching qualification in the end. Just so you know my sister worked very hard and has ASD and Dyspraxia, she isn't lazy as some people might think she is due to her not passing.

AIBU to think DS sister should get given a refund, maybe not the whole amount as she did pass her uni assignments so she got awarded a PGCE but without QTS. But seriously, a PGCE with no QTS? You have to be honest it is a pointless award which no one will take seriously, in other words its worthless.

Also if the university is forced to refund everyone who fails, they would be encouraged to award a "pass" even to those who didn't deserve it.

The entitlement is strong in this one 🤣

I think on some courses there could be a theoretical possibility to sue (tort of deceit, fraud of misrepresentation). For example if you accepted a man onto a course to qualify for something only a woman was legally allowed to do, and did not tell him… clutching straws here!

I'm sure you are right @DockOTheBay , and it will do nothing for retention, or indeed quality of education for our children. I'll accept that a fantastic teacher might not be the person with the very highest academic qualifications, but the way attract talent is to make it a more attractive career.

You know QTS isn't a given and it's not their fault she didn't meet the criteria. I think YABU, especially if you're encouraging DS to feel robbed.

should you have to be refunded for food you dont manage to eat? No because you pay for the food when you get the food not when you eat it because i ate it.

Wtf 😂 she failed, why would you be entitled to a refund how bizarre.

don’t be ridiculous, she paid for the education, not a pass at the end of it. She received what she paid for. Is this a joke?

No. People do fail degrees - whole three-year courses - and they still have to pay back Student Finance the huge amount money, not just the one-year course of a PGCE.

Some mad threads today

She paid for the opportunity to achieve the qualification not to automatically be awarded it. It looks like she did actually get the PGCE anyway, but not QTS. So while not helping her teaching career, she can go in to other careers as she has demonstrated her ability to study at a post graduate level.

Would anyone like their DC to be taught by somebody who had failed their exams?
Substitute "taught" for "flown", "operated on" etc....

That’s a shame for your sister, but don’t be ridiculous. Do you think there should be a guarantee whereby everyone is guaranteed to pass or they get their money back? 😂
it must be hard for her with the additional needs that she has but regardless of the teachers situation the children still need to be taught effectively.

i think it’s reassuring they fail people occasionally

Exactly what I thought....comes across as so entitled too!

I did a course similar to a PGCE in my home country, when I was about 22. Enjoyed most of it except for the placements ... I did pass but didn't go on to actually teach in schools. To be fair, part of my reason for doing it was to gain some teaching skills as I thought I might end up in academia. As it has turned out I am much happier teaching one-one and small groups and have often done this in various disciplines (maths, sciences, music) over the years.

So no, I don't think the money for the qualification is necessarily wasted. Your sister needs to think carefully what she has learned from the experience and where she should take it next. Good luck to her!

I would hope that she had demonstrable work experience from volunteering in more than one school, a detailed understanding of the demands of the job and the temperament to deal with such demands. If she was accepted without this sort of screening, then I do think that the training provider is probably behaving somewhat immorally.
Training providers are no longer required to expect trainees to have had any relevant work experience. They have to meet recruitment targets or their ofsted grade suffers. It is often the case that people are recruited to make up the numbers.

Bizarre thinking.

When you pay for a course, you're paying for time, the materials, the support, the course content - you are not paying for a pass/grade.

In no comparable situation would you get a refund.

The fact is, your sister is not good enough to achieve this qualification - thats just life really, we can't all be good at everything!

What? I don't understand your thinking.

When you study for a qualification like this, you aren't guaranteed the qualification at the end. If you were then there'd be no point in trying because you'd be paying to automatically be qualified.

It is a shame that she worked hard but didn't pass because of her SN.

No she shouldn't

I agree with everyone else, but wonder if there'll be a dripfeed coming ...

Depends. If she disclosed and was offered reasonable adjustments which weren't implemented or weren't sufficient then yes grounds for refund.

Of course she shouldn't get a refund and as someone who has had responsibility for NQTs who just scraped through your sister has probably dodged a bullet. Teaching is a very unforgiving profession and if you can't hack it, it can be soul destroying.

When you pay tuition fees for a properly validated degree/Postgraduate Certificate you do not "buy" the qualification.

You pay for the tuition and the opportunity to study for and achieve a qualification.

For whatever reasons, your sister didn't manage this. She's not owed any refund whatsoever.

YABU totally

I wish they still had bursaries for teacher training, but I do think your sister ultimately has been fairly treated in not being awarded QTS.

I’ve seen NQTs with similar conditions awarded QTS following multiple failures then complaints on discrimination grounds. Another year or more, failing your NQT year or even supply hell wedged in as you try to pass but fail is hell. I’ve seen it almost send someone over the edge.

Teaching boils down to crowd control first and foremost, not knowledge. Your organisational skills and communication abilities are almost the entirety of your success. I’ve supported people with difficulties in these areas through Oc health and access to work funding for equipment and mentoring and I’d honestly say now is the time to step away. Teaching can send most people over the edge with time management stress and the behaviour of children/ parents/ staff, let alone someone with difficulties. It’s a job from hell for some.

I’d strongly advise her to look at her skill set and plan something, many educational psychology for example or speech and language. Something working in school with children, but not leading a classroom. Maybe specialise in an area of SEN that suits her skills.

I wish her luck, I wish teaching was more adaptable and I think she should be supported better. I think she shouldn’t have lost the money- I’m just advising her kindly it’s a bad job for some.

The only query I’d have is if she was allowed to join the course without meeting the entry criteria, if they were negligent in their recruitment (though unlikely).

This is exactly the problem.
Some students really have no idea what teaching is like, or how rigorous the course is. Most of them work hard to improve and pass the placement, but some don't. They're given another chance. I really don't know what people expect.
We need good calibre teachers.

Of course, she shouldn't get a refund, it wasn't a pair of M&S knickers!