To think my sister should get a refund?

[dinglisert]

So my Sister did a PGCE last year, she failed her second placement and had to undertake and additional placement the following Autumn which she also failed. Therefore a lot a money was spent on a qualification which she did not receive. Who decides to complete a PGCE and not receive a teaching qualification in the end. Just so you know my sister worked very hard and has ASD and Dyspraxia, she isn't lazy as some people might think she is due to her not passing.

AIBU to think DS sister should get given a refund, maybe not the whole amount as she did pass her uni assignments so she got awarded a PGCE but without QTS. But seriously, a PGCE with no QTS? You have to be honest it is a pointless award which no one will take seriously, in other words its worthless.

The placement element of a PGCE course is the most important part of qualifying as an actual teacher, rather than learning about education. Children cannot be 'adjusted' to help someone with a disability pass that element.

I should think it wouldn't be beyond the wit of school administrators to institute some "reasonable adjustments" which might be made for a neuro-divergent teacher. If we knew what the triggers or difficulties faced by the OP's sister are, I'm sure we could come up with them, or a list of suggestions of alternative careers using her PGCE. Off the top of my head (and dealing with a neuro-divergent colleague in HE who is incapable of doing the full job ...) maybe a half-time role; maybe rest breaks to decompress; maybe always having a specific kind of TA support; maybe only teaching classes where discipline is not the issue; maybe only teaching higher level & specialist topics/subjects

But none of these is doing the "ordinary" day to day work of the classroom teacher. And schools are so pressured nowadays.

Erm no! If I pay for driving lessons and then fail the test, should I be refunded? Or if you pay for private school fees but get poor grades should you get refunded? No!

She had full access to the course.
she was unable to transfer the skills she learnt when actually teaching in a classroom. She was given a second opportunity, but was still unable to demonstrate that she could be an effective teacher.

very hard for her, but definitely not a case for a refund.
theres a big difference between learning theory and putting it into practice. The latter is essential for a teacher.

this has got to be a reverse. she failed. of course its awful but you can't get a refund for failing

I'm sorry your sister is in this situation, however placements are an important part of a number of courses that fundamentally prove your ability to enter into the respective profession.

If you have a strong argument (with evidence) that her placements did not make reasonable adjustments for her needs then you may have a point.

However, the failure of two placements would suggest (sadly) that your sister's talents lie outside of teaching.

Is this the op really and not the 'sister'?

Er no

Unless she can prove she was not appropriately taught or supported, there is no right to a refund. She passed the academic course, but failed the practical teaching qualification. Did the school give her advice on how to improve? Is it that she can't hack a very difficult job? What about a more junior school role, learning support assistant, then re-evaluate.

She failed twice at the one job she was training to do?’ Absolutely no refund! I failed my last assignment on a 4 year BA teacher training course.. passed teaching placements with exceptional marks and job offers. I wouldn’t even dream of expecting a refund!! If she’s that bad at teaching she fails twice… it’s probably a sign.

Sorry no. She paid for the course. She attended the course.
She failed. It’s a shame but it’s life.

Absolutely not.
She paid to do the course - to receive tuition; to have assignments marked etcetc.
Unfortunately she failed.
You can't refund people who fail. Where would it end? Basically by saying she should be refunded because she ended up without QTS you are suggesting people should be able to buy the qualification. I know you probably haven't thought of it like that, but that's the implication of what you are saying.

No of course not sorry

Can your sister not contact the approving body to ask exactly why they failed her? That way she will know where she went wrong so can take steps to rectify, should she decide to try again.

Was the approving body made aware in advance of ypour sister's difficulties so that any reasonable adjustments could be made?

This post is completely insane.
She paid to be on the course; she failed it. Basically twice.
You don’t get a refund for that.

Yabu. She failed so why on earth she get the tuition back

She is not entitled to a refund…Sorry!

Gently, YABU. Unfortunately some career goals do not line up with our abilities. She did not pay for the qualification.

I hope she finds a fulfilling career off the back of this.

Believe me, some parents do think they should be refunded if their dc receive poor grades in private schools!

Has your sister investigated what routes (if any) would enable her to gain QTS in the future? The other suggestion I have is to speak to her university's careers department about routes forward.

I'm really struggling to understand your train of thought here!

You pay for the tuition, not the qualification - just like everyone who goes to university to study English pays the same amount, whether they graduate with a third or a first.

Seriously? Of course she shouldn’t get a refund, full or partial. Take a step back and I’m sure you’ll realise it’s unreasonable to expect one.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for your sister but teaching clearly isn't the right profession for her. Sometimes people take courses and they're not well-suited to them. What she needs to do now is focus on what she wants to do next, she isn't going to get a refund because she didn't pass. The driving test analogy is spot on, you don't get a refund on lessons if you fail the test.

If all the other students on the course also failed then yes, there was clearly an issue with the provision. Did all the other students on the course fail?

Sorry NRTFT but in the kindest possible way it’s very difficult to fail your PGCE.

It sounds like being a secondary school teacher is not a good fit for your sister so it doesn’t matter than she didn’t get QTS.

Teaching is brutal and I felt that my PGCE didn’t teach me much at all.
The placements were the most helpful as you had experienced teachers telling you how difficult it is.

She absolutely cannot get a refund.
If I failed my bachelors degree I wouldn’t get a refund for that so why would she get one for a PGCE.

They should not have to refund her mistakes.

Is she still set on being a secondary school teacher?
Has she looked in being a TA, cover supervisor, HLTA etc?

Lots of places take experience over grades anyway so tell her to get as much experience as she can and see if she can’t find another way to do her QTS in the future.

No of course she shouldn’t get a refund. She was perhaps badly advised doing the course in the first place but whether that’s by the university or her family I don’t know.