To think you tell someone pre going on a date

[floralarrangement]

that you have a 2 year old and a 4 year old?!

Just got back from a brunch date and this was casually brought up. I feel like this is a HUGE deal, especially due to the ages. I don't have children and don't want to date someone who does. I'm 28 so maybe I'll change my mind on this later in life.

I feel like he didn't tell me (and probably other women) in advance as a way of getting dates from people who otherwise would've said no. Is this too harsh? For those of you who do OLD, do you tell people in advance/put it on your profile?

We work together (huge organisation - didn't know of him before & none of my friends do) which meant I felt pressured have a good date with him because I hate awkwardness. I already have one ex-boyfriend at work which I find stressful, I'd rather not make it a pattern with multiple people I have to avoid for one reason or another

Because there’s no middle ground between not wanting to date a man with kids, and HATING children, is there? 🙄

Why would I?

It should come up in the course of normal conversation. If it doesn't, they're purposely hiding it.

It's really not rocket science.

For your own convenience, you daft bugger!

There's no point stubbornly refusing to ask a pertinent question, then moaning that you've wasted your own time by going on a date with someone who has either not told you about or deliberately concealed the fact they have children.

Why would you want to wind yourself up like that?
What do you think you are proving by not asking?

I have never wasted time meeting someone with kids because most normal, intelligent adults understand that this is something you mention to a potential partner BEFORE you meet up.

It's a fucking weird question to ask when you're dating 30-something professionals in a city most people don't have 4 kids with different partners before 25. The default assumption is that you don't have kids, and if you do, you'd be expected to mention them either in your profile or early on in the chatting stage. Because most normal, intelligent adults can understand the concept of lying by omission.

Would you really not mind going to meet someone and it turning out he's paralysed and in a wheelchair? Has no penis? Is still married? Is HIV positive? Or is it only children that you think are perfectly acceptable not to mention?

I just think it's important to be open and upfront, that is more important to me than whether or not they actually have kids. It's not my job to fire questions at them, if something is a big part of their life, it should come up in conversation, and come from them.

I also think it's an easier thing for men to conceal if they only have their kids EOW.

Would you really not mind going to meet someone and it turning out he's paralysed and in a wheelchair? Has no penis? Is still married? Is HIV positive? Or is it only children that you think are perfectly acceptable not to mention?

Nice Straw Man @pixie5121 but I haven't said that it's acceptable not to mention kids.
I'm just bewildered why, for people who this is a dealbreaker, they don't ensure they're not wasting their own time by asking a simple question. Why would you leave it to chance?

If I were dating now, I'd prefer the guy was childless. So I would ASK if he had kids. Not make assumptions, then sulk about meeting men who are actively concealing DC ...

Yes this is being hotly debated but of course it's only relevant if you're in the same sociodemographic group as this specific situation.

In my social circle and profession most people would have first child in their mid 30s. It's really unusual to be a divorced dad of two at 30 (his age), that's why I was suprised and wouldn't think to specifically ask someone beforehand.

On the date he said quite a few times, "we did things really early" (referring to his ex-partner), when he was talking about the relationship.

I didn't ask for reasons above! @DidYouFindYourCrumpetHoles

He didn't ask me if I had children, and I would've found it really weird if he had have done given that my profile makes me look child free and we'd had a couple weeks conversation where we'd chatted about the details of our days. If I did had children living with me, it would have been an active act to omit the details from these messages.

@KettrickenSmiled

she 100% does not want to date fathers - so much so that she is offended when she 'wastes' time on a first date with one.

Never said I was offended, never said I "wasted" my time

This is similar to the last post and I do feel like it says more about your personal experiences than this thread!

I'm not a "kid hater" and it seems a weird conclusion to draw. His children sounded adorable, I love looking after my nieces. I might want children of my own later in life.

There's a huge amount of things to consider in dating someone with children though - how it impacts the relationship with you and your partner, how much childcare you are expected to do, your relationship with the kids (and what happens if the romantic relationship ends and you no longer see them), potential issues when it comes to being a stepparent, potential issues between your partner and their ex, potential issues with you and the child's mother or their family. MN is full of these kinds of threads and it sounds like while it can be amazing, there's also potential for real heartache and stress.

I think it's pretty unreasonable to accuse someone of hating kids for being incredibly cautious about this scenario.

When I was dating, I would never date someone with kids. I haven’t done online dating but always asked before going on a date. Sorry this happened to you.

Because the entire point is it's not about the children. It's about being a dishonest person who deliberately conceals things that any normal person knows are dealbreakers, whether it's kids, a serious disability or a contagious disease.

Asking if someone has kids if they haven't mentioned any in days of chat is fucking weird and borderline offensive. It would get a lot of people's backs up to have it implied they would conceal something like that, and it would make them wonder what you're hiding, IMO.

The onus is on the person affected to disclose whatever it is they know is going to put people off.

Asking if someone has kids if they haven't mentioned any in days of chat is fucking weird and borderline offensive. It would get a lot of people's backs up to have it implied they would conceal something like that, and it would make them wonder what you're hiding, IMO.

Yes @pixie5121 !

Have been struggling to articulate this. I feel like it's a weird thing to do, and I've never asked anyone before and never have this issue come up.

A poster questioned if he had asked me if I had children. I would've found it weird & assumed he'd had a bad previous experience if he had done, given the context of my childfree profile & weeks of chat.

Why spend so much time overthinking it?
"Do you have kids", early on in the chat, is about as offensive as "do you enjoy walking in the country".

It's coming over as if you want to catch someone out in obscuring the truth from you, instead of being upfront about your own preference, & stating it clearly.

The onus is on the person affected to disclose whatever it is they know is going to put people off.

You're assuming that your dates KNOW that being a father is offputting to you.

It makes sense for people to ask their own 'qualifying questions' to avoid wasting their own time. As the alternative is what happened to OP - would you not rather spend 10 seconds asking an honest question, than waste several hours going on a date, only to discover the truth too late?

Huffing about "well I shouldn't HAVE to ask" is cutting your nose off to spite your face! As you're already aware that SOME fathers conceal the truth, surely it's up to you to protect your own time from these types?

Tbh there are men out there that do deliberately keep it from people to avoid putting them off. That is sadly a thing... hoping you like them enough to overlook it 🙄

If I ask "what did you do at the weekend?" and he tells me he went to the park and to a pizza restaurant and fails to mention these things were with his kids, that's fucking weird.

"Have you got kids?" is not a natural question for me to ask. It's awkward and forced, and why would I ask it out of the blue? I wouldn't ask someone if they had HIV or one leg either. I have lots of dealbreakers, not just the kids one.

It's a fucking weird question to ask when you're dating 30-something professionals in a city most people don't have 4 kids with different partners before 25. The default assumption is that you don't have kids, and if you do, you'd be expected to mention them either in your profile or early on in the chatting stage. Because most normal, intelligent adults can understand the concept of lying by omission.

Nobody’s disputing that he should have said he has kids. But he didn’t. So as to avoid inconvenience & a waste of time in the future surely it’s prudent to ask potential dates if they do? Using the whole young professional 30something culture as a reason for why such a question is so completely inappropriate to even ask, means that you will continue to go on waste of time dates for fear of transgressing this unspoken code of culture & appearing uncool then.

Because people will invariably continue not to disclose things about themselves that you’d prefer they do.

This guy has got 2 kids & yet he works in this supposed homogeneous culture where all 30something young professional city workers are single, never have married before & never could possibly have fathered any kids.

Is it because of such this culture that he felt he couldn’t say he does?? That he’d be negatively judged for it??

By your argument people like him just do not even exist in your class of daters. Because most don't have 4 kids with different partners before 25.

He does though doesn’t he? Of course he should have disclosed but if it’s not acceptable a topic for conversation as you say it is then how could he??

The absurdity of this all just shows that people will lie. They want to present themselves in the best light possible. Constraints on what’s acceptable can influence that. And the individual integrity of the person. And in navigating the minefield of OLD & dating in general you can take steps to minimise disappointments & say ok lesson learned won’t do that again or plough on expecting everyone to have the same standards that you do 🤷‍♀️.

@LicoricePizza It has literally never, ever come up for me in my life.

The entire point is that it's rare for professional men that age, especially in London, to have kids. That's why OP was shocked. It doesn't mean she should have asked, it means he should have been honest.

The question was whether OP was unreasonable to think he should have told her. IMO no, she wasn't. He knew what he was doing. He purposely misrepresented himself.

"Have you got kids?" is not a natural question for me to ask. It's awkward and forced, and why would I ask it out of the blue? I wouldn't ask someone if they had HIV or one leg either. I have lots of dealbreakers, not just the kids one.
😂😂😂

Well, if you equate children with HIV & missing limbs, I can see how you'd find it awkward.

Meanwhile, back in the reasonable world, most people find questions about family/kids to be simple conversation-starters, with nothing awkward or forced to be found in it.

When I first started OLD I did put I had children on my profile. I was very naive and fucking stupid.
I would explain in further chats I wasn’t looking for a dad for them.
Subsequent questions would then involve my children.
why do you need to know all this stuff about them?
I had no interest in introducing them.

Now I don’t mention them. During those initial chats i veer the chat onto things like children and what each other are looking for. I have no interest in those who want to get married for example. Put that on your profile and you only attract one night stands, not that I am against them. Or you attract the casual flings that have several people on the go, but again not against that either.

If I go on a date with someone I don't know or is very casual. They have no need to know if I have children as they will not be involved with my children. He told you on the first date which is long before you got serious and long before it was any of your business.

The question was whether OP was unreasonable to think he should have told her. IMO no, she wasn't. He knew what he was doing. He purposely misrepresented himself.

Of course OP was reasonable to be pissed off.
And I imagine she'll be sure to ask a straightforward closed question before her next OLD date, so it doesn't happen to her again.

I wouldn’t disclose that before meeting in real life, along with most personal information. It’s OLD

Maybe in your little world. It definitely isn't normal in mine. It's a fucking weird, jarring question when all of your chat has been about where you went out, gigs and restaurants.

"Oh you were out in Soho until 4am? Sounds fun...oh btw do you have any kids?"

I can only think that the ludicrous people giving the OP a hard time are single parents themselves who know that their own children are potentially off-putting for some people on the dating scene and so feel rather defensive about the whole thing. 🤷🏼‍♀️

The onus is absolutely not on the person without children to enquire as to whether the person who studiously hasn’t mentioned any children, is in fact a parent. Christ almighty.