To think you tell someone pre going on a date

[floralarrangement]

that you have a 2 year old and a 4 year old?!

Just got back from a brunch date and this was casually brought up. I feel like this is a HUGE deal, especially due to the ages. I don't have children and don't want to date someone who does. I'm 28 so maybe I'll change my mind on this later in life.

I feel like he didn't tell me (and probably other women) in advance as a way of getting dates from people who otherwise would've said no. Is this too harsh? For those of you who do OLD, do you tell people in advance/put it on your profile?

We work together (huge organisation - didn't know of him before & none of my friends do) which meant I felt pressured have a good date with him because I hate awkwardness. I already have one ex-boyfriend at work which I find stressful, I'd rather not make it a pattern with multiple people I have to avoid for one reason or another

A lot of sneery condescending attitudes on this thread about what sort of people have children in their 20s. As though that automatically determines someone doesn't have career aspirations. It's very judgemental.

Being a parent also means you make judgements of your own about who is and isn't suitable to be around your children. It doesn't always mean the childless have the upper hand in terms of rejection.

I haven't online dated for a long time but when I did I used to find that it often didn't matter what I wrote on my profile, men just used to select based on looks/type. First and subsequent draws are for getting to know people better, however you meet initially. Unless you know someone well before, it isn't an expectation to give someone your life story.

Everyone's time is precious, including parents'. You aren't any more special because you think you are.

Yes to this!

There seems to be this prickly undercurrent in the thead that people read it as kids are a bad thing, an obstable etc etc when in reality being with a man with young kids is just not something compatable with every life situation.

I don't understand why you'd hide the fact you have children and wait to be asked (the idea being it's the other person's fault for not checking, not yours to mention), when you might be building a relationship that doesn't have legs? You could be chatting to someone who you do have potential with.

Thanks @LooseGoose22 !

Glad to know someone read my long rambling list of why I didn't want to date a man with kids Others seem to be defaulting to CHILD HATER

@SmellyWellyWoo

You aren't any more special because you think you are.

I don't think I'm special and no-one is obliged to date me.

But equally, I don't have to date a man with children if I don't want to.

Would you have the same attitude if it was my own biological children I wasn't ready to have yet, or felt I was in a position to go through the adoption process yet?

I've given a pretty comprehensive list of why I wouldn't want to do any of these things right now.

@SmellyWellyWoo oh come off it. If anything, I'm impressed at anyone who can get their act together to have kids in their 20s. They're just a bit quicker off the mark than the rest of us.

A lot of this debate is regional, I suspect. Most white collar professional type men in their 20s have to live in urban/urban(ish) areas where cost of living is higher because that's where the jobs are located.

I have friends who live outside cities who exclude men who don't own their homes from their searches. In a costly city like Dublin that would mean you'd be swiping left on doctors and builders alike in your 20s and 30s.

Yes - again with the pricklyness.

I know people from school who didn't go to university, meaning they earnt a lot more in their early 20s, bought a property when prices were less insane, and had kids earlier in life.

None of this is a comment or criticism on at what age people choose to have their first child.

I'll probably be 35 if I did have them - that comes with it's own issues!

I don't think it's condescending to think someone who has married, had kids, and divorced all before 30 and is now looking to date while their youngest is barely a toddler has made some poor life choices. I wouldn't be interested in a person like that because our priorities are very different. If it makes me a condescending snob, so be it. I can't think of a single reason why dating a 30-year-old with two very young children would be worth it when the vast majority of them don't have that issue.

I’d add to that @SmellyWellyWoo that all other things being equal, OP’s stock is currently very high on the dating market because she’s young (can access a wide dating pool of other young people) but just as importantly because she’s encumbered. I just don’t believe you that serious minded men without kids of their own don’t really consider this. OP has no baggage. As parents with baggage aplenty, our stock would not be so high on the dating market. Not saying it’s low, but we just wouldn’t have the pick of men like OP does.

OPs date sounds infuriating because he lacks the self awareness to see that OP is a more desirable prospect than him. He’s arrogant to think it’s not a relevant factor and then arrogant to think she might drop her no kids requirement just for him, even though she made her feelings clear on the date. In my opinion anyway! OP says he’s not an awful chap.

Wow your post is disgusting and you sound like a horrible human being.

Date who you want, no issue with that but your sweeping blinkered stereotyped cliched judgements of vast groups of people you don't even know are vile. As are you.

Hello everyone, just tiptoeing in to politely request that posters refrain from derailing this thread.
Best wishes,
MNHQ

You sound very defensive, insecure and entitled. We're all judged because of our past choices, and also judged on plenty of things that aren't our fault at all. My dating options are limited because of a serious physical illness and a disability, both of which I disclose prior to meeting someone. I also experience racism, not looking white British, and I think a lot of men don't approach me because they think I'm foreign and there would be a language barrier. Bit shit, but that's life, isn't it? We don't all get everything we want at all times.

We all have preferences and likes and dislikes. I would have zero interest in dating someone who is 30 and has young kids because their life simply wouldn't align with mine in any way, and their priorities would be nothing like mine. You're not entitled to demand time and attention from people who aren't interested, whatever their reasoning is.

You really need to get over yourself.

I would say even a woman a decade older still has 'higher stock' on the dating market compared to a younger woman with children. Especially in the context of professionals in London. A 38-year-old barrister might well prefer a 28-year-old over a woman his own age, but only if she's childless. In the vast majority of cases, childless is preferable to young. Part of the attraction of a 28-year-old woman is that she likely has plenty of free time and money to enjoy those early months of dating - restaurants, wine bars, city breaks, etc. That advantage is wiped out if she needs to do the school run, be in bed by 11pm, be monitoring her phone in case the babysitter rings, etc.

The arrogance you speak of is all over this thread. The idea that an unencumbered young person is 'shallow' for not wanting to be involved with a person with young children when she literally has her pick of men.

This is a disgusting post!

Disgusting? It sounds extremely realistic to me.

It seems very immature for someone not to be able to accept that they will not appeal to all men.

I wouldn’t tell people before I met them if I were single because I think people would automatically disregard you purely for that reason without actually giving you a chance which seems unfair. It’s also a safeguarding risk particularly for single women, you never know who is specifically approaching you because you’re a single Mum. I’d argue it’s none of their business on the first date, it makes more sense to tell them after that if you still want to see them. No point telling them if the first date goes badly.

Of course everyone accepts that they will not appeal to all men. This is not remotely what the post says and you know it. It’s absolutely offensive and disgusting as is the posters follow up post and I will be shocked/ horrified if mumsnet allow it.

Date who you want, no issue with that but your sweeping blinkered stereotyped cliched judgements of vast groups of people you don't even know are vile
This.

💜

Why is it unfair?! You are not entitled to a 'chance'! Why do you feel so entitled to manipulative people into dating you and to disregard their boundaries?

The safeguarding risk is more understandable for a single mother (I don't think men would ever worry about this) but you've just admitted what the real motivation is to keep it quiet.

@letsnotdothat

I wouldn’t tell people before I met them if I were single because I think people would automatically disregard you purely for that reason without actually giving you a chance which seems unfair.

I get it, but I personally don't agree with it.

It's the mindset that children are a negative thing (not what I think), but you can charm someone into being ok with it if they get to know you first.

If I had kids and was looking for a relationship I'd only want someone who wholeheartedly was enthusiatic about being part of my family.

And this would be the kind of man who had sat down thought about the potential challenges that can come with having a relationship with someone with children and thought "yes I'm in at a time in my life where I have the emotional/temporal/financial capacity to do this if I met the right person".

I wouldn't want a bloke who was on the fence about it, but after a couple of dates of not knowing had become attached to me and was now going along with it because his boundaries had been blurred and I had a cute kid. You're setting yourself up for future problems.

So for someone who is really busy e.g. with their job or say they do a sport or a hobby quite seriously, who has limited time for dating, and who doesn't want to date a man with children, its fine for them to be manipulated into going on a date with someone they would turn if they had been honest?

I can see why the OP is mad about it. Most dates are excrutiating, and only worth doing for the odd golden meeting. The idea that everyone is happy to have their time wasted because excluding people might be in some way unfair is just bizarre.

The reality is that many people will exclude parents. I think its unrealistic not to accept that. Taking on someone else's kids or dating a parent is very, very different from dating a person with no kids. Its a huge decision.

The other thing that bothers me is if people don't consider it important, and we are taking about basic relationship compatibility here, are these people thinking it doesn't matter because they only want something casual? People are looking for different things on OLD but I think a 28 year old woman is probably looking for someone she is very compatible with. I think if you overlook a failure to mention such a big thing at the outset, it would be very difficult to trust someone enough to build the foundations of a health relationship.

If I had kids and was looking for a relationship I'd only want someone who wholeheartedly was enthusiatic about being part of my family

Since you don’t have kids and have never been in such a situation, i don’t think you can really say to be honest. Until you’ve walked in someone else’s shoes and all that..

Of course she can.

I also don’t thinks it’s realistic to think someone would be wholehearted enthusiastic about joining your family before they’ve even met you!

What I mean is perhaps this going into potential relationships being vague about important things such as having kids is the reason they blundered into a relationship that resulted in kids with someone else which ended so quickly in the first place? I don't think its indicative of someone with great judgement tbh.